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Thread: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

  1. #61
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    It’s amazing how that Eagles team that beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl just crashed and burned. Granted Nick Foles had a lot to do with that win but Pederson did what so many other coaches (namely Dan Quinn) didn’t against Belichick by not letting his foot off the gas.
    It's the way the NFL's rules are designed...protect the QB and Receivers at all costs. This allows a middling QB to get hot for three or four games and win a Super Bowl now. Franchise QB's are no longer needed. They certainly help, but they aren't needed. Better to do what Cleveland has done and build the lines. They have a middling QB, good enough to get hot for 3 or 4 games come playoff time and a Defense that can keep them in the games for it to happen. Buffalo has that now, though Allen has proven to be better than middling, though he's only done it for one season, so we'll see. NFL Defensive Coordinators are geniuses at taking advantages of weaknesses in a game of a QB that has one good year. The next year is usually more bad than good. I expect the same thing to happen to Allen next season. Think about how many QB's have been annointed in just the last five years the first time they have a good season, only to fall flat on their faces the next season.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."


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  3. #62
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Wentz' three seasons prior to last year placed him firmly in the second tier of NFL QB's- below the primary "franchise" guys, but a whole lot better than "erratic". Then 2020 happened. The guy had no one to throw to, with Dallas Goedert leading the team in YPG and Deshaun Jackson playing in only 5 contests. Along with no one being open, Wentz was sacked an incredible 50 times in only 12 games. To put that in perspective, that's a rate nearly twice as high as in 2017, when he led the NFL in QBR. No other NFL QB was as beleaguered by his pass blockers as Carson Wentz.

    I don't think there's a question on whether or not Wentz can play the QB position at a consistently high-level when healthy. The question is whether his injury history projects that he'll actually be healthy enough to count on going forward.

    As a postscript- Betterread hit on this, but you should know that the NDSU Bison football team Wentz played on is the NCAA Division 1-FCS version of the 1960's-1970's John Wooden UCLA basketball squad. Wentz started for two National Championship teams and was there for five total. Division 1-FCS teams do consistently compete against and beat Division 1-FBS teams, occasionally even taking down FBS nationally ranked opponents.

    https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/a...ctories-upsets
    It was never about Wentz' stats this season, or his Receivers that you say he didn't have, he had plenty. It wasn't about his Offensive Line that had as many injuries as half the teams in the NFL. The excuses I heard all season from people about Wentz were ridiculous. By the time the season ended, there were few left trying to make excuses for him. Yet, here we are still.

    Wentz' head-scratching decision-making series after series, quarter after quarter, game after game, from the beginning of the season to the end, is why he's looking for a new job. He showed the IQ of below 80 all season long. That is all him and it's not correctable. In a playoff situation with more pressure it will only be elevated to a more disastrous level.

    PHI needs to move on. Eagles fans know this and know it better than anyone. He got his Head Coach fired because he wouldn't admit to what he and everyone else was seeing to be the real Carson Wentz.
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    It was never about Wentz' stats this season, or his Receivers that you say he didn't have, he had plenty.
    Well, technically, once DeSean Jackson went down, the Eagles did have players dress in wide receiver uniforms and run about the field. The did have "plenty" of those, I guess.

    It wasn't about his Offensive Line that had as many injuries as half the teams in the NFL.
    Dude, the guy was sacked 50 times in 12 games.

    The excuses I heard all season from people about Wentz were ridiculous. By the time the season ended, there were few left trying to make excuses for him. Yet, here we are still.
    I'd be happy to hear a legitimate analysis from you that doesn't include endless rhetoric and claims of IQ test scores. Seems to me that there are reasons to anticipate a rebound for Wentz, particularly should he land with the right team. The guy was really good for three years until then he wasn't good, but according to you he just wasn't good the whole time. That's nonsense and you know it.

    Also seems to me like you're the one making excuses about why that couldn't happen- fake good WR, IQ test scores that don't exist, and the idea that his offensive line wasn't awful, to name a few.
    Last edited by SteelSD; 02-07-2021 at 03:08 PM.
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Wentz' head-scratching decision-making series after series, quarter after quarter, game after game, from the beginning of the season to the end, is why he's looking for a new job. He showed the IQ of below 80 all season long. That is all him and it's not correctable. In a playoff situation with more pressure it will only be elevated to a more disastrous level.
    .
    The argument that Wentz is low IQ is lazy and unsubstantiated. His wonderlic score was 40, which is pretty good, compared to Jeff George 10, Terry Bradshaw 15/16 and Ben Rothlisberger 25.

    A digression - I never forgot Duane Thomas the MVP of the 1971 Super Bowl- Dallas 24: Miami 3.
    When asked about playing in the “ultimate game” before the contest, he responded, "If it's the ultimate (game), how come they're playing it again next year?"

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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Saw an article on Bleacher Report suggesting that Minshew would make a perfect bridge QB in Washington. They thought he could be available for a 5th. If If I'm Jax (and I almost am) Minshew is my backup. A 5th wouldn't do it. But a third probably would.
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    The argument that Wentz is low IQ is lazy and unsubstantiated. His wonderlic score was 40, which is pretty good, compared to Jeff George 10, Terry Bradshaw 15/16 and Ben Rothlisberger 25.

    A digression - I never forgot Duane Thomas the MVP of the 1971 Super Bowl- Dallas 24: Miami 3.
    When asked about playing in the “ultimate game” before the contest, he responded, "If it's the ultimate (game), how come they're playing it again next year?"
    Wentz was obviously coached by his agent to get the 40 Wonderlic score. It's common knowledge that it is always shocking when an important draft pick comes in with a bad Wonderlic score because it's easy for an agent to coach them to a good one, if they out in the time. But, some are just so dumb, they won't even do that. He's no where near a 25...not even close. This guy does not have an IQ over 100. There's a lot missing up there. You can't have the intelligence, or lack thereof, of a Bradshaw in the NFL over the last 20 years, and especially not at QB.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 02-08-2021 at 12:33 AM.
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Well, technically, once DeSean Jackson went down, the Eagles did have players dress in wide receiver uniforms and run about the field. The did have "plenty" of those, I guess.



    Dude, the guy was sacked 50 times in 12 games.



    I'd be happy to hear a legitimate analysis from you that doesn't include endless rhetoric and claims of IQ test scores. Seems to me that there are reasons to anticipate a rebound for Wentz, particularly should he land with the right team. The guy was really good for three years until then he wasn't good, but according to you he just wasn't good the whole time. That's nonsense and you know it.

    Also seems to me like you're the one making excuses about why that couldn't happen- fake good WR, IQ test scores that don't exist, and the idea that his offensive line wasn't awful, to name a few.
    He got sacked 50 times because he held onto the ball when he shouldn't have time and time again. Half the sacks were Wentz' fault. Game after game the announcers could not believe their eyes where Wentz would miss making the correct throw and instead make another ill-advisee decision that ultimately ended yet another drive.

    Trying to blame those sacks on the Eagles' Line is excuse making. Seriously. If you actually watched any of Wentz' games this year, you had to see a brain that was not operating with a full deck where no excuse could be made for him.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 02-08-2021 at 12:39 AM.
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Steel, I know you watched some of Wentz' games this year. When the announcers were repeatedly questioning WTH was Carson thinking on this play or that, what was your reaction during those many, many moments in every single game he played (maybe not Game 1 or 2, but all from Game 3 forward)? Did you ignore the announcers' repeated suggestions that Carson was out of his mind and playing the QB position like he's never seen a playbook in his life? Were you offering excuses then, too?
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Itís amazing how that Eagles team that beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl just crashed and burned. Granted Nick Foles had a lot to do with that win but Pederson did what so many other coaches (namely Dan Quinn) didnít against Belichick by not letting his foot off the gas.
    Foles was also facing a bad Pat's defense.
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Wentz' three seasons prior to last year placed him firmly in the second tier of NFL QB's- below the primary "franchise" guys, but a whole lot better than "erratic". Then 2020 happened. The guy had no one to throw to, with Dallas Goedert leading the team in YPG and Deshaun Jackson playing in only 5 contests. Along with no one being open, Wentz was sacked an incredible 50 times in only 12 games. To put that in perspective, that's a rate nearly twice as high as in 2017, when he led the NFL in QBR. No other NFL QB was as beleaguered by his pass blockers as Carson Wentz.

    I don't think there's a question on whether or not Wentz can play the QB position at a consistently high-level when healthy. The question is whether his injury history projects that he'll actually be healthy enough to count on going forward.

    As a postscript- Betterread hit on this, but you should know that the NDSU Bison football team Wentz played on is the NCAA Division 1-FCS version of the 1960's-1970's John Wooden UCLA basketball squad. Wentz started for two National Championship teams and was there for five total. Division 1-FCS teams do consistently compete against and beat Division 1-FBS teams, occasionally even taking down FBS nationally ranked opponents.

    https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/a...ctories-upsets
    The played in the Div-1 FBS Subdivision level, and compete in the Missouri Valley Football Conference. It's fine they were excelling, dominating, at that level; but what was the level of play of the competition vs that in the P5 or even "lesser" conferences? Not saying he was a scrub or not talented; but that I carried doubts on his transition to that level of play (NFL) from such a small school.

    And Wentz's troubles didn't just begin in '20. They began in '19 with some pretty head-shaking and erratic performances. I agree that it's not all his fault with the lack in offensive weapons. But what is perplexing is him continually making bad decisions with the ball, and with regularity.

    Maybe a chance of scenery will help him. But looking at what the Eagles want out of him, the hefty financial obligations involved .... there's a lot of risk there IMO.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    The played in the Div-1 FBS Subdivision level, and compete in the Missouri Valley Football Conference. It's fine they were excelling, dominating, at that level; but what was the level of play of the competition vs that in the P5 or even "lesser" conferences? Not saying he was a scrub or not talented; but that I carried doubts on his transition to that level of play (NFL) from such a small school.
    In 2016, NDSU almost made the NCAA FBS (not FCS) top 25 list after beating then-#13 Iowa State. Ironically, that's the only year since 2010 that NDSU didn't win the FCS national championship. Check the link I posted- FCS teams do regularly beat FBS teams.

    You may not realize it but one of the QB's in last year's Super Bowl, like this year's color commentator, was from a Division-1 FCS school.

    And Wentz's troubles didn't just begin in '20. They began in '19 with some pretty head-shaking and erratic performances. I agree that it's not all his fault with the lack in offensive weapons. But what is perplexing is him continually making bad decisions with the ball, and with regularity.
    And yet, there he was- 27 TD/7 INT with a passer rating of 93.1 and again, with a WR crew patched together with bailing wire and gum. At least he had a healthy Zach Ertz and Dallas Goedert (another NCAA Division 1- FCS product, BTW).

    Maybe a chance of scenery will help him. But looking at what the Eagles want out of him, the hefty financial obligations involved .... there's a lot of risk there IMO.
    There's always risk involved. But if you're going to take a risk I'd rather it be on a QB who's previously been good to outstanding.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

    According to The Athletic, the Raiders' "preference" is to trade Marcus Mariota rather than Derek Carr. Mariota is linked to the Patriots in the piece composed by a handful of NFL insiders at The Athletic. Some are thinking Mariota can be the sort of reclamation project Ryan Tannehill was in Tennessee when he ended up taking Mariota's job. Mariota played in one game for the Raiders this past season after Carr was injured early in the first quarter of Week 15 against the Chargers. Mariota was electric in the 30-27 loss, going 17-of-28 for 226 yards and a 1:1 TD:INT mark to go with 88 rushing yards and a second touchdown as a runner. Mariota's biggest problem in the NFL has been his complete inability to stay healthy. It's why the Raiders would prefer to trade him over a reliable Carr.

    SOURCE: The Athletic
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    I think Mariotta is just the kind of bargain that Patriots might go for. But I'd play a little hardball with both Mariotta and Raiders if I was NE. Raiders have cap issues. Spotrac is showing them more than 9 million over the cap. And that's with the cap at 185 when the rumor is it will be 180.5.

    So the Raiders need to clear some cap room. Mariotta is on a 1 year 10.75 million dollar deal. With no dead cap. cutting him solves a lot of problems. And they already signed Peterman to a 2.77 million dollar deal. That's a lot for a 3rd stringer.

    If you're the Pats, you'd like a guy who might be a bargain for several years. I'd wait and see if they cut Mariotta and swoop in with a 3 year/30 million dollar deal. If not move on to the next deal. There will be major bargains available if a team is patient.
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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    I think Mariotta is just the kind of bargain that Patriots might go for. But I'd play a little hardball with both Mariotta and Raiders if I was NE. Raiders have cap issues. Spotrac is showing them more than 9 million over the cap. And that's with the cap at 185 when the rumor is it will be 180.5.

    So the Raiders need to clear some cap room. Mariotta is on a 1 year 10.75 million dollar deal. With no dead cap. cutting him solves a lot of problems. And they already signed Peterman to a 2.77 million dollar deal. That's a lot for a 3rd stringer.

    If you're the Pats, you'd like a guy who might be a bargain for several years. I'd wait and see if they cut Mariotta and swoop in with a 3 year/30 million dollar deal. If not move on to the next deal. There will be major bargains available if a team is patient.
    You're absolutely right. Raiders should get nothing for Mariota and will have to cut him. NE may offer a 6th or a swap of 6th's the next season, but they can wait this out. Wait and see what everyone's cap issues will be a month from now.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: The incredible NFL QB carousel of 2021

    Mariota is a bust and I don't see him as the type of QB Bill is going to go after. I watched the one game he played in this year and I was not impressed. It was easy to see the Chargers just hadn't prepared for him and his style which is much different than Carr's, why would they?

    You really think after the Cam experience this year Bill is going to go with another QB who has questionable accuracy and decision making?


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