Fangraphs: “Cincinnati’s Winter Has Been a Disaster”

[757690]

One can critique his analysis, but he has a perfect right to comment at this point. The trucks have left for Arizona. Pitchers and catchers report next week. It’s the fifth month of off-season. Every other team seems to have done its off-season business, or much of it. Even with COVID around.

Reds are fair game for criticism for their off-season, if that’s one’s view.

Look at the list of free agents still available. That reveals most teams are not done with their off season business. This is a different season. I mean, we just found out today when pitchers and catchers report for the Reds.

[757690]

"Stat guys" can be journalists, but not *serious* journalists. Especially if they've ever written something mean. No, it doesn't count as *serious* journalism if they were paid by ESPN to write about baseball. And *serious* journalists would never try to come to a conclusion about the offseason on February 9th. If you peruse the *serious* baseball journalism out there, none of them will be doing this. I'm also going to criticize his ability to analyze *his own ZiPS projections* because, again, he can be a meany.

Many stat guys are quite good at journalism. Nate Silver is one of my favorite reads on any issue he delves into. Kevin Goldstein, also on Fangraphs is another.

Symborski is not one of them.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Pretty much all he does is show that the Reds would have been better off with the other SS options than with what they have now. Duh?

The fact that he includes Strange-Gordon as a SS option says it all. Any decent journalist would have done the research to know that he is not an option for the Reds starting SS job. Putting it in the article removes any respectability from the article. This is banana phone stuff.

As stated before, using 2023 projections is an mistake, never should be done in an article like this. Way too much can happen, no one would consider them legit. No legit journalist would use them.

The article also ignores that the Reds tried to sign the guys mentioned, made competitive offers, but the players signed elsewhere. He makes it seem like the Reds have been twiddling their thumb, doing nothing, and never tried to improve.

It’s just a poor article, more of a click bait hit piece than anything else.

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Again, plenty of talent still out there, plenty of moves to be made by nearly every team. No one thinks this off season is near over.

I definitely put it in the category of "the article could have been a tweet". They needed a SS and didn't get one

[757690]

I will give Dan some credit. Even he understand how wrong it was to include the 2023 projections. From his twitter account:

Naturally, with a deadline looming, mid-morning I thought HEY HOW ABOUT A REALLY EARLY PROJECTION OF 2023? If an editor ever murders me, it's probably justified.

[JFLegal]

man, i'm surprised he didn't laud a franchise that has not won a playoff series in 25 years and is in the midst of one of the most embarrassing offseasons i can ever remember for the reds (and that is saying something).

[mth123]

The Reds have had a poor offseason so far, no doubt. But no serious journalist would write an article criticizing an offseason with a month left to go, especially when so many teams had to wait to make moves and had to cut payroll due to the Covid situation. And let’s be clear, Symborski is no journalist, never has been. He’s a stat guy who writes stuff on a website. His analysis has been poorer than the Reds offseason so far.

Spring Training starts in 8 days. It's time for articles like this.

[Larry Schuler]

If the season ends and the Reds have a perfectly predictable mediocre season with a roster that for the most part resembles the current roster, maybe we can start talking about this offseason. I say maybe because standing pat this off-season might actually be in service of going for it next off-season. Now that I’m thinking about it out loud, no. It’s too early to critique this off-season at the end of the year. There are so many players available now and next off-season that the Reds haven’t and won’t acquire that it’s impossible to grade or judge that kind of infinite possibility as anything but tremendous.

[757690]

Spring Training starts in 8 days. It's time for articles like this.

See post #16

[Joeyjection19]

Look at the list of free agents still available.

The only thing left on the market is old starting pitching, old corner infielders, and old outfielders. Jake Arrieta isn't the missing piece.

[757690]

The only thing left on the market is old starting pitching, old corner infielders, and old outfielders. Jake Arrieta isn't the missing piece.

Jayson Stark disagrees. Here is his list of players left:

It's a post-Super Bowl edition of the All-Unemployed Team!
1B - Mitch Moreland
2B - Marwin Gonzalez
SS - Jonathan Villar
3B - Justin Turner
LF - Brett Gardner
CF - Jackie Bradley Jr
RF - Josh Reddick
C - Yadi
DH - Ryan Braun

All-Unemployed Pitching Staff:
Rotation:
Jake Odorizzi
James Paxton
Taijuan Walker
Rich Hill
Anibal Sanchez

Bullpen:
Rosenthal
Melancon
Kintzler
Greene
Jeffress
Watson
McGee
Justin Wilson
Alvarez

All-Unemployed Bench Patrol:
Infield:
Brad Miller
Logan Forsythe
Asdrubal Cabrera
Travis Shaw
Todd Frazier
Maikel Franco
Brock Holt
Jedd Gyorko

Outfield/1B:
Jay Bruce
Shin-Soo Choo
CJ Cron
Kevin Pillar
Adam Duvall
Nick Markakis
Yasiel Puig

[MoneyInTheBank]

Wasn't Brock Holt a hot name around here last year when the Reds were looking for a SS?

[RedTeamGo!]

Wasn't Brock Holt a hot name around here last year when the Reds were looking for a SS?

No, he was looked at as a utility player

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Jayson Stark disagrees. Here is his list of players left:

There are no viable SS’s on this list.

[Joeyjection19]

Jayson Stark disagrees. Here is his list of players left:

Jayson Stark doesn't say anything about the quality of the players in that list which is comprised of mostly aging starters, aging corner outfielders, and aging corner infielders. Excluding the pitchers (and especially the relief pitchers, where there's a decent chance the Reds sign someone (please?!)), there isn't a single player on that list that makes this lineup demonstrably better.

What do Taijuan Walker and Maikel Franco have in common? They're both the only non-relievers under 30 on the list AND players I don't want to have to resort to.

[MoneyInTheBank]

No, he was looked at as a utility player

ehh, there were quite a few posters musing about him playing SS

[757690]

Jayson Stark doesn't say anything about the quality of the players in that list which is comprised of mostly aging starters, aging corner outfielders, and aging corner infielders. Excluding the pitchers (and especially the relief pitchers, where there's a decent chance the Reds sign someone (please?!)), there isn't a single player on that list that makes this lineup demonstrably better.

What do Taijuan Walker and Maikel Franco have in common? They're both the only non-relievers under 30 on the list AND players I don't want to have to resort to.

I agree there isn’t any position player on that the list that the Reds should sign. But there are plenty of pitchers that make the team better.

But the point I was making is that there is far more talent available at this point in the off season, than any other year at this same point. Covid changed the timeline of this off season. I think that list reveals that.