Fangraphs: “Cincinnati’s Winter Has Been a Disaster”

[RedTeamGo!]

I’ve run out of creative ways to say how much I don’t enjoy being a fan of this team anymore. I can’t really imagine myself attending a single game or really paying attention whatsoever at all this year. At this point, why would I even waste the time?

This SS thing is a disaster but you’re acting like they are the Pirates and just sold every player in the team with a pulse. They still have multiple all star caliber players in Castillo, Gray, Votto, Suarez, Castellanos, and Moustakas. They should be competitive in 2020.

[mth123]

See post #16

I saw it. What makes you think they'll add what they need in the next few days when they haven't done it yer. Every year at this time, there are a bunch of guys available and most are hangers on or fringe bench guys. Who on that list can play SS?

[757690]

I saw it. What makes you think they'll add what they need in the next few days when they haven't done it yer. Every year at this time, there are a bunch of guys available and most are hangers on or fringe bench guys. Who on that list can play SS?

Just yesterday Heyman reported the Reds are in talks with the Rays for Adames and the Tribe for Rosario. Story is also on the trade blocks.

If you look at who is left right now, it’s quite different from the group of available free agents at the same time most years. It’s not just fringe bench guys.

[mth123]

Just yesterday Heyman reported the Reds are in talks with the Rays for Adames and the Tribe for Rosario. Story is also on the trade blocks.

If you look at who is left right now, it’s quite different from the group of available free agents at the same time most years. It’s not just fringe bench guys.

They were rumored after Gregorius, Semien, Simmons and even Villar. What makes you think they'll get anyone? I'm sorry, other than a couple of years that kind of backfired, they haven't historically made moves to address problems.

[Mitri]

This offseason has been a disaster; it’s just annoying to hear it from a clever incel like Symborski.

I think the biggest problem has been the whiplash when it comes to expectations. Had this ownership group not taken on the Bauer contract, and added the free agents last season, the lowering of payroll back to typical Reds standards would not be so crushing.

I mostly don’t blame Krall, but I do think he played the SS market poorly. He should have convinced ownership to allow the money for a Simmons contract for the long-term health of the franchise. Easier said than done I suppose.

People say they’d rather just rebuild but the market is not right for that. Sure, Krall could have moved Castillo, Gray, Suarez (he dipped toes) but at least he didn’t just dump contracts. Tough times out there, not an excuse just the hand he was dealt. I still think moving Iglesias was smart but still waiting on that money to be reallocated...

[757690]

They were rumored after Gregorius, Semien, Simmons and even Villar. What makes you think they'll get anyone? I'm sorry, other than a couple of years that kind of backfired, they haven't historically made moves to address problems.

I am not saying they will. But there is plenty of time for them to do so. And I disagree that they haven’t made moves to address problems. They traded key prospects and added payroll the last two years to add:

Gray
Bauer
Roark
Wood
Puig

[Joeyjection19]

Just yesterday Heyman reported the Reds are in talks with the Rays for Adames and the Tribe for Rosario. Story is also on the trade blocks.

If you look at who is left right now, it’s quite different from the group of available free agents at the same time most years. It’s not just fringe bench guys.

There aren't any offensive UFAs available that make this team better, period. They can still sign pitching, sure, and they can still make trades, but the offensive UFA market is tapped out except for the corners.

[Tom Servo]

Pretty much all he does is show that the Reds would have been better off with the other SS options than with what they have now. Duh?

The fact that he includes Strange-Gordon as a SS option says it all. Any decent journalist would have done the research to know that he is not an option for the Reds starting SS job. Putting it in the article removes any respectability from the article. This is banana phone stuff.

As stated before, using 2023 projections is an mistake, never should be done in an article like this. Way too much can happen, no one would consider them legit. No legit journalist would use them.

The article also ignores that the Reds tried to sign the guys mentioned, made competitive offers, but the players signed elsewhere. He makes it seem like the Reds have been twiddling their thumb, doing nothing, and never tried to improve.

It’s just a poor article, more of a click bait hit piece than anything else.

If you think about it, things are actually going great. Yes I have forced myself into this weird position through a series of contrarian views over the last several years, so what?

[757690]

If you think about it, things are actually going great. Yes I have forced myself into this weird position through a series of contrarian views over the last several years, so what?

As I said many times, I agree that the Reds off season as been poor. I also agree with the article that the Reds missed an opportunity to buy low this off season. My complaint with the article is not the conclusion but the details within it, and its timing.

[Larry Schuler]

The content is correct but the cadence of the piece is all wrong.

[tripleaaaron]

I definitely put it in the category of "the article could have been a tweet". They needed a SS and didn't get one

Really though they need so much more. We are not just a SS away. A Lindor, maybe we can talk. But we are a SS, a C, a front line starter and a front line RP from even being in it.

[757690]

Maybe he updated the article or something but it seems like all your complaints he basically covered. Strange-Gordon as a SS? He even said neither ought to be considered SS at this point, it was more directed at the fact their options are terrible right now and they don't have a backup plan.

(Also included are Dee Strange-Gordon, inked to a minor-league deal this week, and Jonathan Villar, now a Met but who was rumored to be close to signing with the Reds. The latter two I’m projecting as shortstops here; neither ought to be considered shortstops at this point, but both represented at least theoretical choices at the position.)



He literally said it was a "very rough idea" and that it is "Obviously, this isn’t actually a projection in a traditional sense, but it does give us a look at each team’s strengths down the road." The Reds farm is not exactly a strength, they have some guys I do like but not apparent studs on the offensive side at this point.



The headline of the article explicitly says the Reds winter "Has Been" a disaster, which is literally saying the winter has been a disaster up to this point but is still in progress. There is really nothing in the article to argue against aside from the Senzel to SS thing, just let it go, Dan.

1. There was no reason to include Strange-Gordon as an option, even theoretically. I mean if you’re going to be theoretical, why not include Suarez and Senzel and Winker as SS options? Adding Strange-Gordon in any sense is disingenuous, and him admitting it was disingenuous doesn’t make it any less disingenuous.

2. Even Dan admitted he was wrong to use the 2023 projections: This is what he said on twitter after the article published:

Naturally, with a deadline looming, mid-morning I thought HEY HOW ABOUT A REALLY EARLY PROJECTION OF 2023? If an editor ever murders me, it's probably justified.

[Joeyjection19]

1. There was no reason to include Strange-Gordon as an option, even theoretically. I mean if you’re going to be theoretical, why not include Suarez and Senzel and Winker as SS options? Adding Strange-Gordon in any sense is disingenuous, and him admitting it was disingenuous doesn’t make it any less disingenuous.

Nick Krall, yesterday, on Strange-Gordon at shortstop:

"Probably get some shots at shortstop and see where he is there, but he’s probably going to play all over the field as well.”

Someone should tell Nick Krall that he's being disingenuous.

[tripleaaaron]

He projects Strange-Gordon as one of the Reds options. He shouldn’t have, and the part you quote shows even he knows it’s a mistake. “I shouldn’t use this guy, but I will” is a lousy defense.

We know the Reds made competitive offers because Krall is quoted saying that they did. Signing free agents is not like a vending machine where you put in a dollar, press G4 and get a SS out of the bottom. The player has to want to sign with you, and when there are other teams bidding, there is no guarantee they will, no matter what you offer.

I don’t disagree that for Strange- Gordon SHOULDNT be in the running for SS but Krall said he was an option. The same guy you believe made strong offers to others. Don’t be mad at the journalist who works with what he is given by the GM.

[757690]

Nick Krall, yesterday, on Strange-Gordon at shortstop:

"Probably get some shots at shortstop and see where he is there, but he’s probably going to play all over the field as well.”

Someone should tell Nick Krall that he's being disingenuous.

That quote makes clear that Strange-Gordon is not in the running for the starting SS position. It makes clear he is going to be considered a candidate for the utility guy. “Some shots at SS” and “going to play all over the field” says he is not going to be the starting SS.