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Thread: The Rotation

  1. #1
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    The Rotation

    It seems like we've spent the better part of 2-3 months now waiting for something, anything, to happen with regards to the shortstop position, with the bullpen being the other area where some action was expected. But am I the only one who thought the Reds would try and do SOMETHING regarding the rotation, which as far as I can tell looks like this:

    Gray
    Castillo
    Mahle
    Miley
    Lorenzen/Antone/Hoffman/De Leon

    This is, uh, not great. I'm not a Miley hater like some quarters of this board, I think when healthy he's a perfectly adequate "bend but don't break" starter, but it's not a great sign that he's kind of a default option here. Mahle I go back and forth on, he seemed to finally take a step forward last year but unfortunately the sample size was limited. I don't think you can count on anything in particular, he could still just be the same guy from 2018-2019. Again, it's not a great sign that he's effectively penciled in already. Of the #5 group, I think Antone has the best chance to be decent but I'm not over the moon about him based on 35 innings yet.

    If anything happens to Sonny or Luis, this group is in real trouble. There's a handful of veteran starters still currently available, none of whom are essentially guarantees to be better than the current crop but guys who have handled the rigors of 20+ starts before. Might be worthwhile to sign one of those guys up just in case.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

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  4. #2
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Sign Walker.

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  6. #3
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Best case scenario no one gets injured and you make the playoffs, and Mahle is your 3rd guy you’re running out there? Yeah the rotation is a major problem.

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  8. #4
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    If anything happens to Sonny or Luis, this group is in real trouble.
    I think just about any team outside of the Dodgers can also say if they lose one of their top two guys they'd be in serious trouble.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  10. #5
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    I think just about any team outside of the Dodgers can also say if they lose one of their top two guys they'd be in serious trouble.
    The 2012 Reds managed pretty well losing Cueto multiple times. I think he missed more than one month that season.

    Even the 2020 Reds lost Sonny Gray for a few weeks too right? There’s a precedent even for just this team to have a deep enough rotation to weather that kind of hit. The current rotation is not that, though.

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  12. #6
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Best case scenario no one gets injured and you make the playoffs, and Mahle is your 3rd guy you’re running out there? Yeah the rotation is a major problem.
    If they make the playoffs with this rotation, chances are Mahle (or possibly Antone) took a leap and became the guy we’ve hoped he would. The signing a #3 ship has sailed, but the back end definitely needs depth.

    I still think Porcello or Walker are good fits and within reach.

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  14. #7
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    If they make the playoffs with this rotation, chances are Mahle (or possibly Antone) took a leap and became the guy we’ve hoped he would. The signing a #3 ship has sailed, but the back end definitely needs depth.

    I still think Porcello or Walker are good fits and within reach.
    Durability aside I like Walker more than I do Mahle as a third starter

  15. #8
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    The Rays showed how you can go deep into the playoffs without a deep rotation. I like their approach of having many versatile pitchers on the staff that allows for “pen days” that end up being more effective than most middle rotation starters.
    Thats why were playing, bro

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  17. #9
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    Re: The Rotation

    I think you have to include Lodolo in the rotation equation. He reminds me of a Mike Leake type with a chance of maybe a little upside from that. I do agree we need to sign one of the Walker/Porcello types still out there.

  18. #10
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    It seems like we've spent the better part of 2-3 months now waiting for something, anything, to happen with regards to the shortstop position, with the bullpen being the other area where some action was expected. But am I the only one who thought the Reds would try and do SOMETHING regarding the rotation, which as far as I can tell looks like this:

    Gray
    Castillo
    Mahle
    Miley
    Lorenzen/Antone/Hoffman/De Leon

    This is, uh, not great. I'm not a Miley hater like some quarters of this board, I think when healthy he's a perfectly adequate "bend but don't break" starter, but it's not a great sign that he's kind of a default option here. Mahle I go back and forth on, he seemed to finally take a step forward last year but unfortunately the sample size was limited. I don't think you can count on anything in particular, he could still just be the same guy from 2018-2019. Again, it's not a great sign that he's effectively penciled in already. Of the #5 group, I think Antone has the best chance to be decent but I'm not over the moon about him based on 35 innings yet.

    If anything happens to Sonny or Luis, this group is in real trouble. There's a handful of veteran starters still currently available, none of whom are essentially guarantees to be better than the current crop but guys who have handled the rigors of 20+ starts before. Might be worthwhile to sign one of those guys up just in case.
    The moment they non-tendered Archie Bradley I didn't expect them to add anyone this winter. I'm sort of surprised anyone else was under that illusion.

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  20. #11
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    Re: The Rotation

    Mahle had two pretty good first halves of the season in 2018 and 2019, and he had two disastrous second halves. Is it too much to hope for him to finally have a good full season this year? But to the point of this thread, I'd feel a lot better about hoping for him to put a full season together if he was our 5th option and not our 3rd.

  21. #12
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    That's actually a pretty solid rotation. And of course the Reds are screwed if Gray or Castillo get hurt. There's almost no teams in baseball that aren't screwed if they lose one of their top two SPs. The Dodgers could fine. For everybody else that's big trouble. Yet in the Reds' case, their top two profile as really good pitchers. Mahle's the guy who can really swing things in terms of the overall quality. He seemed to piece it together better last season. He keeps doing that plus a deader ball and a humidor, and we could be looking at him being a very nice pitcher to have around. Miley's going to get a slot if he's healthy because his salary says so. And the #5 options are mildly interesting. I suspect they like Hoffman more than they've said to date, though I'll believe he's past being a palooka when I see it.

    The whole thing looks better with another guy inserted into the #3 slot. It pushes another capable arm into the bullpen, gives them coverage to weather injuries and makes the whole project less reliant on Mahle's fortunes. You can't have too much pitching and the Reds would be wise to put that into practice.
    The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
    In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there

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  23. #13
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    Re: The Rotation

    Rotation goes from a major strength, with Bauer, to solid, without him.

    The main risk is the BOR, which involves a bounce back (Miley), conversion from pen (Lorenzen), or unprovens (DeLeon, Antone, Hoffman).

    It’s as good as many teams, not the top ones, but good enough in the NL Central, if healthy.

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  25. #14
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Most publications consider it a top 10 rotation as is.

    I would be happy if they added Walker, but they won’t. They are pretty clearly not adding anyone else. Sucks.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  26. #15
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    That's actually a pretty solid rotation. And of course the Reds are screwed if Gray or Castillo get hurt. There's almost no teams in baseball that aren't screwed if they lose one of their top two SPs. The Dodgers could fine. For everybody else that's big trouble. Yet in the Reds' case, their top two profile as really good pitchers. Mahle's the guy who can really swing things in terms of the overall quality. He seemed to piece it together better last season. He keeps doing that plus a deader ball and a humidor, and we could be looking at him being a very nice pitcher to have around. Miley's going to get a slot if he's healthy because his salary says so. And the #5 options are mildly interesting. I suspect they like Hoffman more than they've said to date, though I'll believe he's past being a palooka when I see it.

    The whole thing looks better with another guy inserted into the #3 slot. It pushes another capable arm into the bullpen, gives them coverage to weather injuries and makes the whole project less reliant on Mahle's fortunes. You can't have too much pitching and the Reds would be wise to put that into practice.
    C. Trent Rosecrans
    @ctrent
    The #Reds are NOT one of the 5 teams adding humidors for baseballs


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