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Thread: The Rotation

  1. #31
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by UPRedsFan View Post
    Lorenzen is in a walk year and wants to start. He may surprise us and become the #3. I feel pretty good about the rotation. More concerned about the bullpen.
    I am pretty optimistic about the Reds' rotation, but I am not seeing this one. Can anyone explain to me how Lorenzen is a good bet to go from good-not-great middle relief arm to good starter? Does that ever happen?

    I really like him in a depth/swing role. But I will be disappointed when he breaks the season as one of the top-5 options on the SP depth chart.

    The top "half" of the rotation doesn't concern me to much. But I would like the Reds to get Miley some company at the bottom of the rotation. Lorenzen, Anotone, et al will get still get starts when there is an inevitable injury.


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  3. #32
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    I would like the Reds to get Miley some company at the bottom of the rotation. Lorenzen, Anotone, et al will get still get starts when there is an inevitable injury.
    Antone, DeLeon, and Hoffman are all depth company that will be on the 26-man roster. That's solid depth, IMO, if Miley or Lorenzen struggle. I'd prefer Taijuan Walker, but the Reds' ownership sucks butt and is being super cheap.

  4. #33
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Interesting. I feel like having Lorenzen, Antone, Santillan, De Leon able to start with Hector Perez, Romano and Hoffman in a pinch is strong. I'd like to upgrade the 3-4 spot but I like the depth
    Vlad is on the restricted list due to PEDS.
    Romano, wouldn't be surprised if he's cut at the end of ST (out of options).
    De Leon is 28 years old, also out of options, and has yet to lock down a 26 man spot.
    Hoffman is in the same boat as De Leon, a 28 year old out of options who was moved by COL because they had lost faith in him.
    Santillan had a 5 ERA in AA in 2019 and is coming off a missed year, fingers crossed.
    Lorenzen, I can name about a half dozen relievers who went on to put up productive seasons as a starter in the past 10 years or so - the odds are against him. I'd be surprised if he starts more than 8 games this season.
    Antone had a .216 BAbip last season, I don't see that continuing.
    Bailey is a decent option to have, but he really doesn't profile as more than a #5, and might be relegated to the pen soon.
    Perez is a nice player to have stashed in AAA, but guys who walk 5 per 9 don't fair well as starters in the bigs.
    Miley has had a wishy washy career, I could see him being good and I could also see him being brutally bad.

    I don't like the depth behind the top 3, I want them to add to it. There are still at least a half dozen starters sitting in FA that I'd be talking too if I were the Reds. That's assuming they have some money to spend.

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  6. #34
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    Re: The Rotation

    I think the enthusiasm is because he has a starters arsenal of pitches, and he had success in his limited trial last year. I share the enthusiasm.
    Bud Selig: "I'm the worst commissioner ever"
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  8. #35
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    Vlad is on the restricted list due to PEDS.
    Romano, wouldn't be surprised if he's cut at the end of ST (out of options).
    De Leon is 28 years old, also out of options, and has yet to lock down a 26 man spot.
    Hoffman is in the same boat as De Leon, a 28 year old out of options who was moved by COL because they had lost faith in him.
    Santillan had a 5 ERA in AA in 2019 and is coming off a missed year, fingers crossed.
    Lorenzen, I can name about a half dozen relievers who went on to put up productive seasons as a starter in the past 10 years or so - the odds are against him. I'd be surprised if he starts more than 8 games this season.
    Antone had a .216 BAbip last season, I don't see that continuing.
    Bailey is a decent option to have, but he really doesn't profile as more than a #5, and might be relegated to the pen soon.
    Perez is a nice player to have stashed in AAA, but guys who walk 5 per 9 don't fair well as starters in the bigs.
    Miley has had a wishy washy career, I could see him being good and I could also see him being brutally bad.

    I don't like the depth behind the top 3, I want them to add to it. There are still at least a half dozen starters sitting in FA that I'd be talking too if I were the Reds. That's assuming they have some money to spend.
    The main potential soft spot is the back of the rotation. It's why the Reds should acquire a guy who profiles as a 3-4 starter. There's been zero indication they're looking to do that. They aren't rumored to be talking to or scouting still available pitchers. They haven't identified it as an area where they'd like to make an addition, at least not out loud. So it would be a surprise to see them address it at this time even though they should.

    Where it leaves them is with a fairly standard mix of options for the 4-5 slots (a collection of guys who could go either way). I've got some confidence that Johnson/Boddy can wring something out of what they've got. Yet I'd love it if the Reds gave them one more arm on whom they could rely.
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  10. #36
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Lorenzen had a minor procedure on his left knee this offseason that included a PRP injection to address patellar tendinitis there, Bobby Nightengale of The Cincinnati Enquirer reports.

    Lorenzen saw a doctor last week and had the knee rehab and strengthening declared a success. Lorenzen had been dealing with the tendinitis the last two seasons, mostly when playing the outfield and running the bases. He should be able to give starting pitching a full go this spring.
    https://www.cbssports.com

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  12. #37
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    Re: The Rotation

    Yeah, Kinsm lays it out pretty clear. I get the feeling they are happy with their plethora of unproven options for the 5/6 slot. To be fair, there are a lot of options, they've done a good job amassing guys who *could* be interesting.

    The fact that not a lot of them have options makes me think they don't plan on bringing in anyone new. I mean, that wouldn't leave many opportunities for Hoffman and DeLeon, and who wants that?

  13. #38
    he/him *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    I am pretty optimistic about the Reds' rotation, but I am not seeing this one. Can anyone explain to me how Lorenzen is a good bet to go from good-not-great middle relief arm to good starter? Does that ever happen?
    As JaxRed already mentioned he's got five different pitches. He keeps the ball on the ground and in the yard, and that's half the battle in GABP. If he can avoid home runs and not walk too many he should strike out enough to be an effective 4th/5th starter for five innings, which is all that's expected of your back-end of the rotation these days...

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    marcshoe (02-19-2021)

  15. #39
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    Re: The Rotation

    Lorenzen has improved his bat missing capabilities. If he can keep up his 9+ K rate as a starter, or close to it, I think he’ll do ok. That’s possible, throwing 4-5 innings as a fifth starter.

    Walks are a tad high, has good ground ball tendencies. Needs to get his share of strikeouts which has been an issue at some points in his career.

    I’m a bit more concerned about Miley, a real ground ball pitcher, who might prefer a better defensive infield behind him.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-16-2021 at 10:09 PM.

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  17. #40
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Bobby Nightengale
    @nightengalejr
    David Bell says the #Reds are leaning toward a 5-man rotation at this point, but they've had discussions about a 6-man rotation.

  18. #41
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    Re: The Rotation

    Boddy had some very high praise for De Leon in a reddit AMA this off-season, I wouldn't sleep on him either.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  20. #42
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    Re: The Rotation

    I wonder what the context is on the 6 man rotation. Is it utilizing the personnel? Workload after the shortened season? Both?

  21. #43
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I wonder what the context is on the 6 man rotation. Is it utilizing the personnel? Workload after the shortened season? Both?
    I'd say Probably both with the main reason being the workload after the shortened season.

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  23. #44
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    Re: The Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    The 2012 Reds managed pretty well losing Cueto multiple times. I think he missed more than one month that season.

    Even the 2020 Reds lost Sonny Gray for a few weeks too right? There’s a precedent even for just this team to have a deep enough rotation to weather that kind of hit. The current rotation is not that, though.
    i think you have your years confused. 2012 was the crazy year when the reds had zero starting pitchers miss starts due to injury. then of course cueto gets hurt in game 1 of the playoffs (although lecure came in and pitched great and the reds won that game).

    guessing you are thinking of 2013.

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    Old school 1983 (02-17-2021)

  25. #45
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    Re: The Rotation

    one guy who doesn't get mentioned enough when it comes to the reds' 2021 rotation is lodolo. he could be fast tracked if he pitches well in the minors and the reds have a need for a 5th starter. he won't make the team out of spring training or anything, but i won't be surprised if he's in the rotation by, say, midseason.

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