Covid-19, Part XI - Rounding Third?

[JaxRed]

New pill shows promise in Phase II studies for treating (stopping) Covid.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-1...ng-11615006861

[Todd Gack]

Random question: Why are so many places/public health departments still putting an emphasis on cleaning/sanitizing things after use? We've been told this virus is airborne and you can't get it from touching anything on surfaces so why is this still a thing in preventing this virus? Obviously, we need to clean/sanitize things but in terms of COVID management plan, why are they still requiring this to be done? It's almost like this was typed up a year ago and they are just copying and pasting and forgetting to delete this requirement.

[JaxRed]

No one has the guts to say stop.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Random question: Why are so many places/public health departments still putting an emphasis on cleaning/sanitizing things after use? We've been told this virus is airborne and you can't get it from touching anything on surfaces so why is this still a thing in preventing this virus? Obviously, we need to clean/sanitize things but in terms of COVID management plan, why are they still requiring this to be done? It's almost like this was typed up a year ago and they are just copying and pasting and forgetting to delete this requirement.

I mean people are gross and we should clean stuff more. Let’s keep that going.

[Todd Gack]

I mean people are gross and we should clean stuff more. Let’s keep that going.

Missing the point. It shouldn't be part of a COVID plan. It doesn't prevent Covid. And it's not like many people cleaned things off themselves before anyway.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Missing the point. It shouldn't be part of a COVID plan. It doesn't prevent Covid. And it's not like many people cleaned things off themselves before anyway.

I was joking.

[757690]

I mean people are gross and we should clean stuff more. Let’s keep that going.

The virus can still be spread through touching. It still is essential for public places to be cleaned regularly. You are more likely to get it through the air, but it still is true that surfaces can be infected with the virus and we can pick it up when we touch infected areas.

The data reveals that there has been little infection through touching infected items, but that likely is because we have done a good job of constantly cleaning public places. However, the science hasn’t changed since the beginning. We still need to keep public places clean in order to limit the spread of the virus.

[Sea Ray]

The virus can still be spread through touching. It still is essential for public places to be cleaned regularly. You are more likely to get it through the air, but it still is true that surfaces can be infected with the virus and we can pick it up when we touch infected areas.

The data reveals that there has been little infection through touching infected items, but that likely is because we have done a good job of constantly cleaning public places. However, the science hasn’t changed since the beginning. We still need to keep public places clean in order to limit the spread of the virus.

The term is "hygiene theater" and far too many resources are being spent on this. We do not need to be spending all this money on hand sanitizer. Schools/businesses need not close for "sanitation".

The evidence is out there:

“A year into the pandemic, the evidence is now clear,” the editorial begins. “Catching the virus from surfaces—although plausible—seems to be rare.”

And there is a health risk to using too much hand sanitizer:

Disinfectant mania also poses a health risk. As hotels, gyms, and offices engage in an arms race for the most germ-smashing disinfectants, health experts are starting to warn that these measures might accidentally make patrons and employees sick. Poison Control calls in the U.S. spiked by nearly 40 percent in 2020, largely because of the increase in exposures to disinfectants and cleaning supplies. Former President Donald Trump may shoulder some blame here: Last year, he wondered aloud if injections of cleaning fluid might combat the coronavirus. But widespread dissemination of bad information is a likelier culprit. In one case, a woman who heard from news reports that vegetables could convey the virus “soaked her produce in bleach, vinegar, and hot water,” according to the CDC. After this toxic sous-vide experiment, she went to the hospital coughing and wheezing, where she required additional oxygen and bronchodilator medication.

Hygiene theater is part of a bigger problem with America’s relationship to science. The cliché is that people should “follow the science” and do whatever “science says.” But the truth is that science says many things at once. Science says that the coronavirus can last one month on surfaces; it also says it’s vanishingly rare to get the coronavirus from surfaces.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-waste/617939/

Todd's point is well founded in science

[marcshoe]

You're not supposed to drink the hand sanitizer.

[757690]

The term is "hygiene theater" and far too many resources are being spent on this. We do not need to be spending all this money on hand sanitizer. Schools/businesses need not close for "sanitation".

The evidence is out there:



And there is a health risk to using too much hand sanitizer:



https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-waste/617939/

Todd's point is well founded in science

That is just an opinion piece. The CDC and WHO disagree, as they have not changed their stance on this issue.

The op-ed does say that you can get Covid from surfaces, but it takes touching a surface that is contaminated and then touching your face. That is unlikely for most people, except for those working where there is heavy traffic. They have to touch surfaces touched by many people all day long. And it is those places that are doing the cleaning.

[Sea Ray]

That is just an opinion piece. The CDC and WHO disagree, as they have not changed their stance on this issue.

The op-ed does say that you can get Covid from surfaces, but it takes touching a surface that is contaminated and then touching your face. That is unlikely for most people, except for those working where there is heavy traffic. They have to touch surfaces touched by many people all day long. And it is those places that are doing the cleaning.

It's not "just" an opinion piece. It's an opinion piece with scientific backup:

Since last spring, the CDC has expanded its guidance to clarify that the coronavirus “spreads less commonly through contact with contaminated surfaces.” In the past month, the leading scientific journal Nature published both a long analysis and a sharp editorial reiterating Goldman’s thesis. “A year into the pandemic, the evidence is now clear,” the editorial begins. “Catching the virus from surfaces—although plausible—seems to be rare.”

A clinically significant risk of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmission by fomites (inanimate surfaces or objects) has been assumed on the basis of studies that have little resemblance to real-life scenarios...the chance of transmission through inanimate surfaces is very small, and only in instances where an infected person coughs or sneezes on the surface, and someone else touches that surface soon after the cough or sneeze (within 1–2 h). I do not disagree with erring on the side of caution, but this can go to extremes not justified by the data.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...561-2/fulltext

By contrast, real-world experiments that test for infectious SARS-CoV-2 from hospital surfaces have shown little infectious virus. In Italy, researchers swabbed a number of surfaces in a hospital following standard cleaning procedures and found no evidence of viable virus. Following standard precautions, “SARS-CoV-2 transmission is unlikely to occur in real-life conditions,” they concluded. Another study from Israel collected viral RNA samples from surfaces in several hospitals and quarantine hotels and found that none contained infectious levels of coronavirus.

That's no less than four studies mentioned in that one article. Let's at least acknowledge that, which makes it more than an opinion piece

In short, there's very little chance of spreading this through surfaces so spending great amounts of money and resources on disinfecting surfaces is not warranted

[757690]

It's not "just" an opinion piece. It's an opinion piece with scientific backup:



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...561-2/fulltext



That's no less than four studies mentioned in that one article. Let's at least acknowledge that, which makes it more than an opinion piece

In short, there's very little chance of spreading this through surfaces so spending great amounts of money and resources on disinfecting surfaces is not warranted

Look at what you quoted. All the research reveals is that after following proper precautions and cleaning, there is little evidence of spread. Meaning, the cleaning is working.

In what you quoted, the author admits that transmission is possible. It’s rare because most of us are in quarantine, not moving around much. But as I stated earlier, if you work in a high traffic area, where you have to touch items that others are constantly touching, the chances are much higher. And that is where all the cleaning is happening.

[Sea Ray]

Granted numbers in Ohio are generally lower on Saturdays but today we only had 735 new cases reported. Previous Sundays Ohio reported 1268, 1461, 1809 and 2138 (Feb 28, 21, 14, 7). Let's see where the numbers jump tomorrow and Tuesday but this is great news. More importantly hospitalizations are dropping like a rock. Only 820 people in the entire state are hospitalized with C19. This represents only 3.0% of all hospital beds. it was just a few weeks ago that DeWine dropped the curfew because hospitalizations dropped below 2500. The vaccines must work. The end is closer than you think

[westofyou]

Random question: Why are so many places/public health departments still putting an emphasis on cleaning/sanitizing things after use? We've been told this virus is airborne and you can't get it from touching anything on surfaces so why is this still a thing in preventing this virus? Obviously, we need to clean/sanitize things but in terms of COVID management plan, why are they still requiring this to be done? It's almost like this was typed up a year ago and they are just copying and pasting and forgetting to delete this requirement.

It's theater, it's all psychological. I've given up trying to debate those who adhere to it religiously, to each their own

If anything it has revealed how little people cleaned before.

[Sea Ray]

Look at what you quoted. All the research reveals is that after following proper precautions and cleaning, there is little evidence of spread. Meaning, the cleaning is working.

In what you quoted, the author admits that transmission is possible. It’s rare because most of us are in quarantine, not moving around much. But as I stated earlier, if you work in a high traffic area, where you have to touch items that others are constantly touching, the chances are much higher. And that is where all the cleaning is happening.

Of course transmission is possible. We all agree on that. But it does not say that it's because of quarantine and not moving around as much.

You're not getting it so I'll just have to give you the bottom line:

There is currently no conclusive evidence for fomite or direct contact transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in humans.

SARS-CoV-2 transmission is unlikely to occur in real-life conditions

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7505025/

"The virus and the entire pandemic has created a psychological impact — making people, businesses, think that we might need deep cleaning and thorough cleaning," said Padma Bheri, the director of quality, safety and regulation at Marlborough Hospital."Wear your mask, do the hand-washing, and of course you can do the regular cleaning, but you don't need — every object, every inch, every surface need not be cleaned," said Bheri.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coron...covid/2240823/

But those measures, while visually impressive, might be just that, and no more. According to experts, they will do little-to-nothing to protect you and the people around you from the most risky sources of infection.

https://www.insider.com/bogus-corona...heater-2020-10

So if makes you feel better, fine, keep buying that hand sanitizer but understand, it's not doing you much good