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View Poll Results: Grade the Reds' offseason

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  • D

    45 37.82%
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Thread: Grade the Reds' offseason

  1. #61
    Member tripleaaaron's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    What’s your argument for that being better? I guess I’d rather tread water than go ahead and drown.
    Treading water only leads to drowning. Only in a long drawn out painful manner. This team is not a contender no matter how we want to dress it up as one. We have minima pieces for future success as it stands. We have shown we will not even spend 1.5 million to address a glaring hole. We need to tear it down. Truly tear it down and actually try to build something. I do t know about you but I hate treading water especially when our head is constantly under water.
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  4. #62
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Oh, there's plenty of blame to go around.

    I suspect Krall knew his budget when he signed on to the job. He also knew the personnel. Plenty of SS have been traded and signed this off-season. Expecting the GM to find a warm body to play shortstop isn't out of the realm of possibility. He added Hoffman's exorbitant salary instead of non-tendering Stephenson, for example. That extra cash could have signed Villar, for sure. That's a really bad understanding of his own budget AND a poor allocation of resources.

    Not only that, the GM's job is, in part, PR. He talked about bullpen help. He got that done. But he focused most of his initial interview and off-season discussion on the SS position, then did nothing to acquire one. That's worth the failing grade.
    What do you expect him to do, turn down the job because Castellini told him he had to drastically slash payroll? Essentially all the money was quite clearly tied up in existing contracts. What was left wasn't going to get you an adequate SS, let alone a difference maker.

    I'm not sure how much you think Hoffman is making. I assume Boddy liked Hoffman and I'll defer to him until he gives me a reason not to.

    I'm glad he didn't force a trade for a SS (thus far) knowing there's a very real possibility they start selling off assets in a few months. Honestly, I don't even know if he was allowed to trade premium prospects for a SS if he wanted to.

  5. #63
    he/him *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Non-tendering Archie Bradley only to watch him sign on with the Phillies for *more* than he was projected to receive in arbitration stands out as a wasted opportunity...

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  7. #64
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    I went D instead of F simply because the strength of this organization is Derek J and his staff. I trust that they must think they can fix and maximize the results out of some of these borderline pitchers they acquired. Other than failing to come up with a SS not sure there is much to do with the offense but hope everyone returns to their normal production.

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  9. #65
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    What do you expect him to do, turn down the job because Castellini told him he had to drastically slash payroll?
    If he knew he couldn't acquire a SS via free agency or trade, he should have had sense enough not to say that was his main priority in his first interview.

    He's failed in his quest to plug a clear black hole in the Cincinnati lineup. The one clear hole in a pennant-contending club, mind you.

    Instead, he's made the team actively worse.

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  11. #66
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    I'm glad he didn't force a trade for a SS (thus far) knowing there's a very real possibility they start selling off assets in a few months. Honestly, I don't even know if he was allowed to trade premium prospects for a SS if he wanted to.
    If the Reds are selling off assets in a few months they're going to be in big trouble, because most of their veteran players already proved to have very little trade value this past offseason. Presumably if they're selling it will be because some of these veterans played below expectations, further diminishing their trade value. I don't expect the Reds' current farm system + any haul from trading veterans over the next year to enable a strong competitive window, leaving the Reds to flail back into another Lost Decade...

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  13. #67
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    If the Reds are selling off assets in a few months they're going to be in big trouble, because most of their veteran players already proved to have very little trade value this past offseason. Presumably if they're selling it will be because some of these veterans played below expectations, further diminishing their trade value. I don't expect the Reds' current farm system + any haul from trading veterans over the next year to enable a strong competitive window, leaving the Reds to flail back into another Lost Decade...
    As you said, if the Reds decide to sell in July or at the end of the season, it's likely going to be the good players that we don't want to see go. Hopefully they get good youngsters in return, but yes, it will lower the talent level in the short term as you pointed out. Last winter's spending spree is going to screw them over for awhile.
    Maybe after this season , when Miley is off the books, there will be some money available.. but more than likely the "Savings" will go "to raises for the returning staff".
    So yea, I agree with you.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #68
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Easy F.

    They gave away / let useful players go for virtually no return. They failed to address their one absolute glaring weakness, somehow making it worse that it already was.

    It's likely that this whole rebuild era will have peaked at a last minute, short-lived wild card appearance.
    Well stated!

    And all that happened in the context of the executive who brought the organization into the 21st century noping out when he learned where ownership wanted to take things.
    Yeah, I'm not buying the 'Williams was quietly forced out' argument that many are parroting. Regardless, it's (Hamstrung by ownership) still no excuse for the overall inaction so far this off-season, with pressing needs unfulfilled. Other teams which also sit at our proverbial lunch table - in roughly the same financial situation as the Reds - such as Oakland, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay and Minnesota aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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  16. #69
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Non-tendering Archie Bradley only to watch him sign on with the Phillies for *more* than he was projected to receive in arbitration stands out as a wasted opportunity...
    They signed Doolittle for a fraction of the cost, and the both project to be around the same.
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  17. #70
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    [QUOTE=757690;4208727]They signed Doolittle for a fraction of the cost, and the both project to be around the same.[/]



    That’s true if one ignores 2020.

    Doolittle had a velocity issue. He then had an injury issue. That’s why the difference in price tag.

    But sure, if you’re willing to overlook those factors, you’re certainly right, at one time they were probably similar type pitchers.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-18-2021 at 02:13 PM.

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  19. #71
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    That’s true if one closes his eyes to 2020.

    Doolittle had a velocity issue. He then had an injury issue. That’s why the difference in price tag.

    But sure, if you’re willing to overlook those factors, you’re certainly right, at one time they were probably similar type pitchers.
    That post also had nothing to do with what I wrote, which was about the wasted opportunity to trade Bradley for a C prospect...

  20. #72
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    The Reds so far have clearly failed this off season.

    However, they really didn’t have many needs, and only one glaring one, which they completely failed on, so far. So while the offseason has been a failure, the season still looks rather promising.

    They look to be around a 75-80 win team. Not good, but far better than the 2016-2018 years. More importanlty, had they signed a SS, they’d only be looking at a slight bump of around 2-3 wins. Even if a SS signing lead to 5 more wins, the Reds would still be in a similar situation.

    I mean, had the Reds signed Villar, what would the grade be? If they signed Simmons, what would it be? It seems one move would move the off season grade up a few grades, even it it wouldn’t move the needle win wise as much as the grade would suggest.
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  21. #73
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    If the Reds had signed Villar I would have graded the offseason a C-/D+ or so. Those two wins are a really big incremental deal for a contender...

  22. #74
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    That post also had nothing to do with what I wrote, which was about the wasted opportunity to trade Bradley for a C prospect...
    You just said wasted opportunity. I can’t read minds.
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  23. #75
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    Re: Grade the Reds' offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleaaaron View Post
    Treading water only leads to drowning. Only in a long drawn out painful manner. This team is not a contender no matter how we want to dress it up as one. We have minima pieces for future success as it stands. We have shown we will not even spend 1.5 million to address a glaring hole. We need to tear it down. Truly tear it down and actually try to build something. I do t know about you but I hate treading water especially when our head is constantly under water.
    The only outcome of trading assets to rid the team of expensive contracts is to lower payroll and stuff the pockets of ownership. It doesn't improve the position of the team in the short or long term, just makes the current on-field product worse. While the status quo isn't exactly exciting. It is a lot more exciting than the same team without Suarez and Moustakas or Gray and Castellanos for example.

    Trading off some assets to tear it down and reload is a different approach than what I am talking about.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 02-18-2021 at 04:04 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.


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