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  1. #1
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    Assets

    In the thread about grading the front office based on this last off season, Griffey012 wrote "I voted a D for dud and not F only because it could have been worse if they traded one of our actual assets along with a bad/mediocre contract to shed more salary. I do like some of the pitcher pickups: C. Perez, Hoffman, Doolittle."

    I focused on the end of the first sentence "worse if they traded one of our actual assets." I can't remember a time when the reds roster contained so many untradable individuals.

    Unless you are giving money away with the contracts you can't really trade Votto, Moustakas, Castellanos, Shogo or Miley.

    I think you could trade Suarez or Senzel, but I don't think anybody in the organization would be pleased with the return.

    You look over the roster at Farmer, Aquino and Garcia and I guess if you get the right partner they could bring something back, but nobody is going to go out of their way to acquire a player like that.

    On the plus side they DO have Gray and Castillo. They could wave the white flag and trade either of those guys for something. It's not a tradable surplus, but they are assets.

    They have two quality major league catchers with a kid ready to take a roster spot. During an offseason where the jettisoned players left and right in the name of salary relief, it's curious that they kept all three of those guys. Between the two of them Barnhart and Casali are a very good hitting platoon that doesn't hurt you on defense and isn't terribly expensive. I would think Stephenson at the very least should get all the at bats going to Casali. The fact that Casali has NOT been dealt likely means I overvalue him.

    Garrett, Winker, Mahle and Lorenzen are assets that could still bring something back in a trade. Other than those guys I don't see much on the reds roster that I would be eager to acquire if I was the gm of another team.

    I mean it's a pretty bleak roster.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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  3. #2
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    Re: Assets

    Casali was non-tendered, presumably to make room for for Stephenson. FWIW.

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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    Casali was non-tendered, presumably to make room for for Stephenson. FWIW.
    Thank you. Obviously I missed that. So yes, since they were not able to trade him for anything, I overvalued him.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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  7. #4
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    Re: Assets

    I agree that the roster is a mix of negative trade value, neutral trade value, and only a few high-trade value assets. Castillo and Grey would be very, very valuable trade chips for example.

    But I don't want the team to trade good players away, so that's not important to me. I don't think it's a great team as built, but it has some talent on the roster. I wouldn't call it bleak. It should at least compete for the central.

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  9. #5
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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    I agree that the roster is a mix of negative trade value, neutral trade value, and only a few high-trade value assets. Castillo and Grey would be very, very valuable trade chips for example.

    But I don't want the team to trade good players away, so that's not important to me. I don't think it's a great team as built, but it has some talent on the roster. I wouldn't call it bleak. It should at least compete for the central.
    Yes, I agree. I haven't even looked at the "Grade the Front Office" thread, because I'm not sure what it could possibly say that hasn't already been said in the other thirty "This Team Stinks" threads.

    We saw sixty games from this team last year. Sixty games. That is the equivalent of two months worth of games. In a normal, 162 game season, those sixty games would get us through the months of April and May. Let's face it, in most seasons, if this team sat at 31-29 at the beginning of June, we'd be relatively happy. The offense was criticized mightily ... and yet it seemed to have been close to the top of the heap in major league baseball in on-base percentage. Our resident saber proponents on this board have preached for years that as long as on-base percentage is good, all the other numbers will eventually catch up. And that is exactly what was taking place in the last 20-25 games last year. I would have loved to have seen the 2020 team for a full 162-game schedule.

    The offense on this team is not near as bad as folks have been telling us that it is. They had a horrible stretch of about 30 games. Pretty much, this is the same offense minus Freddy Galvis and his .220/.308/.404 numbers. Seriously, I am not going to lose sleep over losing Freddy Galvis. And I also think the Reds can replace Galvis' numbers among the likes of Alex Blandino, Kyle Farmer, and Dee Strange-Gordon.
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

    “We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn

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  11. #6
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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    Yes, I agree. I haven't even looked at the "Grade the Front Office" thread, because I'm not sure what it could possibly say that hasn't already been said in the other thirty "This Team Stinks" threads.

    We saw sixty games from this team last year. Sixty games. That is the equivalent of two months worth of games. In a normal, 162 game season, those sixty games would get us through the months of April and May. Let's face it, in most seasons, if this team sat at 31-29 at the beginning of June, we'd be relatively happy. The offense was criticized mightily ... and yet it seemed to have been close to the top of the heap in major league baseball in on-base percentage. Our resident saber proponents on this board have preached for years that as long as on-base percentage is good, all the other numbers will eventually catch up. And that is exactly what was taking place in the last 20-25 games last year. I would have loved to have seen the 2020 team for a full 162-game schedule.

    The offense on this team is not near as bad as folks have been telling us that it is. They had a horrible stretch of about 30 games. Pretty much, this is the same offense minus Freddy Galvis and his .220/.308/.404 numbers. Seriously, I am not going to lose sleep over losing Freddy Galvis. And I also think the Reds can replace Galvis' numbers among the likes of Alex Blandino, Kyle Farmer, and Dee Strange-Gordon.
    a lot of spin there imo. the one thing the reds said publicly they were going to do this offseason was upgrade at shortstop. they failed massively. no one is talking about "replacing galvis' numbers." that's a strawman. the goal was to upgrade the position and the reds did not do that. and even though i'm by no means a galvis fan, he's better than the trio of farmer/blandino/strange-gordon for sure. the fact that strange-gordon is even in the discussion to be the reds' shortstop this season tells you everything you need to know.

    the good news, imo, is garcia will be ready at some point this season, or by 2022 at the very latest. a lot of fans are overreacting based on how he played as a 22-year-old rookie who had never played above high-A ball, and it was a very small sample size as well.

  12. #7
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    Re: Assets

    I predict by the deadline Castellanos will be considered one of the bigger trade chips out there
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I predict by the deadline Castellanos will be considered one of the bigger trade chips out there
    Why? If he's hitting great then he's opting out of the rest of the deal. If he's not hitting great he's sticking around at a very ugly price for another 2 years.

    I think the Reds are stuck with him for the full 3 years remaining.

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  15. #9
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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    Why? If he's hitting great then he's opting out of the rest of the deal.
    If he's opting out at the end of the season, he can provide big production for the playoff run then be off the books.

    That's how GMs enjoy their big contracts nowadays.

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  17. #10
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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    If he's opting out at the end of the season, he can provide big production for the playoff run then be off the books.

    That's how GMs enjoy their big contracts nowadays.
    Think about what you just wrote for a moment.

    If he's hitting great, no one wants to trade big prospects for someone who is leaving in 2 months time (he wouldn't bring back the trading team draft pick(s)). In addition, if you trade for him and he sucks for those two months - then there is a real possibility he doesn't opt out in which case you're taking on a boat load of contract over the next two seasons. That risk is way too great in my opinion for the Reds to get a good return for him.

    If he's hitting terribly, no one is trading for him at all unless the Reds are throwing in a huge chunk of his owed salary.

    So, why would he be considered a big trade chip?

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  19. #11
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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    Think about what you just wrote for a moment.

    If he's hitting great, no one wants to trade big prospects for someone who is leaving in 2 months time...
    Except it happens every year.

    Just last year, Starling Marte, Mitch Moreland, and Tommy LaStella were sent packing with months left on their contract. (Marte did have a club option.) These were the three best bats on the market. All three were free agents at the end of the season.

    In 2019, Castellanos himself was an example. So were Scooter Gennett, Corey Dickerson, Yasiel Puig, and Eric Sogard. These (and perhaps Franmil Reyes, were the best bats available/ acquired during the deadline.

    You can go back further if you want to.

  20. #12
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    Why? If he's hitting great then he's opting out of the rest of the deal. If he's not hitting great he's sticking around at a very ugly price for another 2 years.

    I think the Reds are stuck with him for the full 3 years remaining.
    Because if he’s hitting great a contending team would see that as a perfect deal. If he opts out, you save money, if he doesn’t, you have LF/RF/DH settled for two more years. I would frankly want to keep him, I’m just saying I think he will be a hot commodity if the reds are out of it.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  21. #13
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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I predict by the deadline Castellanos will be considered one of the bigger trade chips out there
    If this is true I predict that we are 3-4 games under .500, within striking distance of the central and air on our hands rather than trade assets or acquire them. We then finish with 74 wins and have zero to show for it.
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  22. #14
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    Re: Assets

    I could not disagree more strongly that Garcia only has value to the 'right partner'. He's a top 100 prospect at the sport's premium position. I agree on Aquino. I would say Farmer is pretty fringy

    You've named: Castillo, Gray, Suarez, Senzel, Barnhart, Stephenson, Garrett, Winker, Mahle and Lorenzen

    I would also add Sims and Antone as having positive value

    So, half the roster has positive trade value

    Votto, Moustakas, Shogo and Castellanos have negative value for contract only, not because they are bad players

    I wouldn't call it bleak, at all

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  24. #15
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    Re: Assets

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Votto, Moustakas, Shogo and Castellanos have negative value for contract only, not because they are bad players
    If Akiyama proves his September was the real guy, he'll have a ton of value. If Castellanos plays to the back of his baseball card, he will too.

    The only guys who'd be hard to move, IMO, are Votto and Moustakas. (And Hoffman.)

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