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Thread: Votto 2021 Thread

  1. #31
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Fully agree about the rest. There’s an argument Votto should sit one game almost every series. Should get no more than 400-450 PAs.

    Reds could find a way to do this if they stock the bench properly. Especially if no DH, with the overflow of OFers looking for playing time. It should be a priority to have a “Plan B” for first base going into the season.
    Only problem with this is - who plays first when Votto sits? I'd love to see Senzel get some reps at 2B with Moose at 1B, but that means an OF of Winker/Shogo/Cast? Because if Votto is sitting, it should probably be against LHP, and a guy like Naquin should be sitting too.

    You're right about the Reds needing a better RHH OF in the mix. I don't think Aquino, or a guy like Ervin, are ideal options.


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  3. #32
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    I've been one of Votto's biggest supporters throughout his career, I've never cared that he sacrificed a little power to get on base.

    Having said that, I think it's absolutely wishful thinking on the part of any Reds fan to say he just had a down year last year and that he should rebound. Age ends careers, he's 37 years old now and he's nearing the end - there is no reason to believe he'll bounce back. Eyes worsen, speed slows, reaction times decline, recovery times increase, etc. I just hope he doesn't get meteorically worse in one off-season.

    Anything over .250 / .350 / .400 and the Reds and fans should be content.

    It's not Votto's fault, it happens to them all.

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  5. #33
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Fully agree about the rest. There’s an argument Votto should sit one game almost every series. Should get no more than 400-450 PAs.

    Reds could find a way to do this if they stock the bench properly. Especially if no DH, with the overflow of OFers looking for playing time. It should be a priority to have a “Plan B” for first base going into the season.
    I'm with you on getting him more rest but 400-450 PA is low to me. I'd shoot for the 500-550 range

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  7. #34
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    In my opinion, Votto has never had the teams interest first and foremost. His indifference to his defensive position is embarrassing as a Reds fan. Side-stepping balls hit at him. Little League.

    I cringe when he comes to the plate with runners in scoring position. Knowing he is either going to swing as hard as he can at the first pitch or let the bat sit on his shoulder and try and go deep into the count hoping for a walk, (and prancing to first base like he has done something), or get caught looking at a borderline pitch.

    Votto's contact will not be over soon enough. And the bad part is the Reds can't cut the cancer out. They have to live with it.

  8. #35
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    I'm curious to see if he makes a statement by wearing a shirt to spring training making fun of of his stat projections, then underperforms them again.



    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  9. #36
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by scotly50 View Post
    In my opinion, Votto has never had the teams interest first and foremost. His indifference to his defensive position is embarrassing as a Reds fan. Side-stepping balls hit at him. Little League.

    I cringe when he comes to the plate with runners in scoring position. Knowing he is either going to swing as hard as he can at the first pitch or let the bat sit on his shoulder and try and go deep into the count hoping for a walk, (and prancing to first base like he has done something), or get caught looking at a borderline pitch.
    Votto career with runners in scoring position:

    Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip
    RISP 1175 1837 1361 718 444 99 5 71 640 37 6 418 313 .326 .477 .563 1.040 766 34 14 0 44 141 9 .365
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  11. #37
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I'm with you on getting him more rest but 400-450 PA is low to me. I'd shoot for the 500-550 range
    Votto’s 37. I’d give him lots of rest. I’d even give him a full series off once in awhile.

    I take your point, just a matter of philosophy. If he’s feeling great coming down the stretch, then let him play more, sure.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-22-2021 at 12:28 PM.

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  13. #38
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Only problem with this is - who plays first when Votto sits? I'd love to see Senzel get some reps at 2B with Moose at 1B, but that means an OF of Winker/Shogo/Cast? Because if Votto is sitting, it should probably be against LHP, and a guy like Naquin should be sitting too.

    You're right about the Reds needing a better RHH OF in the mix. I don't think Aquino, or a guy like Ervin, are ideal options.
    I have three solutions. There are probably more. Reds just need to be creative to get rest for their $25 million player.

    1. Keep Blandino. Against LHP, Blandino plays second and Moose plays first.

    2. Keep another backup who can play first against LHP. They have one on a minor league deal, Cuthbert, a former KC RHH who plays third and first. Hits lefties well.

    3. Reds have four starting caliber OFers, use one or more at first occasionally. Cast and Senzel are both former infielders. Let them work in ST at first base for occasional use.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-22-2021 at 12:29 PM.

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Votto’s 37. I’d give him lots of rest. I’d even give him a full series off once in awhile.

    I take your point, just a matter of philosophy. If he’s feeling great coming down the stretch, then let him play more, sure.
    Like I said, definitely not opposed to resting. I just like him in the 125-135 game range rather than the 100-110 game range

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I believe he was referring to Trevor Bauer, who seemed to be unhappy with Votto's play. I always believed that the greatest hindrance to the Reds re-signing Bauer was not money, but Votto.
    How can you say that with a straight face when Bauer just signed a 3 year $102M deal?
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  18. #41
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I have three solutions. There are probably more. Reds just need to be creative to get rest for their $25 million player.

    1. Keep Blandino. Against LHP, Blandino plays second and Moose plays first.

    2. Keep another backup who can play first against LHP. They have one on a minor league deal, Cuthbert, a former KC RHH who plays third and first. Hits lefties well.

    3. Reds have four starting caliber OFers, use one or more at first occasionally. Cast and Senzel are both former infielders. Let them work in ST at first base for occasional use.
    Another option down the road could be India. If his bat plays even a little they could really use his versatility. 1B/2B/3B/LF/RF

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  20. #42
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    I've been one of Votto's biggest supporters throughout his career, I've never cared that he sacrificed a little power to get on base.

    Having said that, I think it's absolutely wishful thinking on the part of any Reds fan to say he just had a down year last year and that he should rebound. Age ends careers, he's 37 years old now and he's nearing the end - there is no reason to believe he'll bounce back. Eyes worsen, speed slows, reaction times decline, recovery times increase, etc. I just hope he doesn't get meteorically worse in one off-season.
    I feel like he had similar ideas last year that he didnÂ’t end up committing to, but I love the idea of Votto focusing on power as a way to combat the age curve.

    Fighting the decline of visual reaction time at his age is a hopelessly losing battle, but power isnÂ’t out of the question yet.

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I believe he was referring to Trevor Bauer, who seemed to be unhappy with Votto's play. I always believed that the greatest hindrance to the Reds re-signing Bauer was not money, but Votto.
    And Votto deserved to be called out. Every year Votto cost the Reds a couple of games by not having his head in the game and the fans, players and coaches give him a pass. I don’t really care for Bauer’s personality but he will call anybody out for halfassing it and that’s what Joey did. Some of you guys won’t admit that Joey disappears mentally as a base runner, at first base and probably at the plate too. He’s an awesome talent. Some of us can praise him and call him out, others think that it’s hating on him for being real about it. You can be a fan of someone and still criticize them.

  23. #44
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by scotly50 View Post
    In my opinion, Votto has never had the teams interest first and foremost. His indifference to his defensive position is embarrassing as a Reds fan. Side-stepping balls hit at him. Little League.

    I cringe when he comes to the plate with runners in scoring position. Knowing he is either going to swing as hard as he can at the first pitch or let the bat sit on his shoulder and try and go deep into the count hoping for a walk, (and prancing to first base like he has done something), or get caught looking at a borderline pitch.

    Votto's contact will not be over soon enough. And the bad part is the Reds can't cut the cancer out. They have to live with it.
    Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one and everyone thinks the other guys is weird

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  25. #45
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    What exactly is a “hater” to you? That always sounds vague to me. No criticism allowed or you’re a “hater”?


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