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Thread: Votto 2021 Thread

  1. #46
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Loyalist View Post
    And Votto deserved to be called out. Every year Votto cost the Reds a couple of games by not having his head in the game and the fans, players and coaches give him a pass. I don’t really care for Bauer’s personality but he will call anybody out for halfassing it and that’s what Joey did. Some of you guys won’t admit that Joey disappears mentally as a base runner, at first base and probably at the plate too. He’s an awesome talent. Some of us can praise him and call him out, others think that it’s hating on him for being real about it. You can be a fan of someone and still criticize them.
    Iīve never seen someone having a problem with fair criticism. If Votto falls asleep as a base runner or making an error on defense it is obviously fair to call him out for that.

    The problem is the way it is done. If everytime you post something it is something negative it is different. If you call him out for only drawing walks and in the next post you call him out for the wish to hit for more power than it is rather obvious what the intentions are.

    Votto has lots of haters, he got hated for his approach from broadcasters, he got even more hate after he signed his contract.

    now Votto is the reason Bauer didnīt sign with the reds?! Sorry I canīt read that bs... he got a 102million dollar contract and a single infielder on the reds roster is the reason he didnīt sign with the reds?!

    Joey Votto doesnīt want to win? thatīs bs. Of course he wants to win, even if he only wants to be in the HOF and everything he cares about is himself. He still wants the team to win, because there is no better way to get national attention than being the best player of a winning team. If he wants to get in the HOF, winning postseason games will help him...

    Iīm not excited about his last few seasons and Iīm interested about how they handle the situation going forward because I do believe he needs more rest days to still be effective...
    with all that being said, I canīt understand reds fans for the way they react towards one of the best (perhaps the best pure) hitter in team history. The FO has been terrible for a few years and I donīt get what they try to do, but looking at the reds fanbase the past few season (here, in the stadium, I try to ignore social media reds related because thats even worse) is pretty bad aswell.
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  4. #47
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    I've been one of Votto's biggest supporters throughout his career, I've never cared that he sacrificed a little power to get on base.

    Having said that, I think it's absolutely wishful thinking on the part of any Reds fan to say he just had a down year last year and that he should rebound. Age ends careers, he's 37 years old now and he's nearing the end - there is no reason to believe he'll bounce back. Eyes worsen, speed slows, reaction times decline, recovery times increase, etc. I just hope he doesn't get meteorically worse in one off-season.

    Anything over .250 / .350 / .400 and the Reds and fans should be content.

    It's not Votto's fault, it happens to them all.
    I kinda agree with your numbers but if those are correct then how long do you stay with that as a starter at a position that is traditionally an offensive position? He has a couple of years left and those projections will only decrease. I’m for giving him this year before deciding that but the problem is that he’s traditionally a slow starter.

  5. #48
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Loyalist View Post
    I kinda agree with your numbers but if those are correct then how long do you stay with that as a starter at a position that is traditionally an offensive position? He has a couple of years left and those projections will only decrease. I’m for giving him this year before deciding that but the problem is that he’s traditionally a slow starter.
    In all honesty...

    If you're the New York Yankees, probably a year. If you're the Cincinnati Reds, the remainder of his contract.

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tomnuetten View Post
    Iīve never seen someone having a problem with fair criticism. If Votto falls asleep as a base runner or making an error on defense it is obviously fair to call him out for that.

    The problem is the way it is done. If everytime you post something it is something negative it is different. If you call him out for only drawing walks and in the next post you call him out for the wish to hit for more power than it is rather obvious what the intentions are.

    Votto has lots of haters, he got hated for his approach from broadcasters, he got even more hate after he signed his contract.

    now Votto is the reason Bauer didnīt sign with the reds?! Sorry I canīt read that bs... he got a 102million dollar contract and a single infielder on the reds roster is the reason he didnīt sign with the reds?!

    Joey Votto doesnīt want to win? thatīs bs. Of course he wants to win, even if he only wants to be in the HOF and everything he cares about is himself. He still wants the team to win, because there is no better way to get national attention than being the best player of a winning team. If he wants to get in the HOF, winning postseason games will help him...

    Iīm not excited about his last few seasons and Iīm interested about how they handle the situation going forward because I do believe he needs more rest days to still be effective...
    with all that being said, I canīt understand reds fans for the way they react towards one of the best (perhaps the best pure) hitter in team history. The FO has been terrible for a few years and I donīt get what they try to do, but looking at the reds fanbase the past few season (here, in the stadium, I try to ignore social media reds related because thats even worse) is pretty bad aswell.
    The thing is that occasionally criticizing Votto gets you labeled as a hater. He’s obviously had a great career and accepting that contract was just smart business on Votto’s part and bad business on the Reds part... my opinion. I think that he deserves to play this year, he’s earned that chance but if he continues to decline then next year the Reds need to find a new plan at first base. Does that sound reasonable or is that considered hating? Do you let him play out his contract regardless of numbers? At some point, it has to be team first. If he can’t hit .250 then they need to go another route because he doesn’t add much defensively or on the bases.

  7. #50
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    In all honesty...

    If you're the New York Yankees, probably a year. If you're the Cincinnati Reds, the remainder of his contract.
    That’s sad but probably true.

  8. #51
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Votto career with runners in scoring position:

    Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip
    RISP 1175 1837 1361 718 444 99 5 71 640 37 6 418 313 .326 .477 .563 1.040 766 34 14 0 44 141 9 .365
    I believe his career OPS with runners in scoring position is one of the best ever for a Red.

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  10. #52
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    I believe his career OPS with runners in scoring position is one of the best ever for a Red.
    My rule of thumb is when the OPS begins with "1.", it's near the top most lists

  11. #53
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    My rule of thumb is when the OPS begins with "1.", it's near the top most lists
    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    I believe his career OPS with runners in scoring position is one of the best ever for a Red.
    Second highest of anyone since 2002, I can't find career data that is older.
    Last edited by CaiGuy; 02-22-2021 at 02:40 PM. Reason: fact checking

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  13. #54
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I have three solutions. There are probably more. Reds just need to be creative to get rest for their $25 million player.

    1. Keep Blandino. Against LHP, Blandino plays second and Moose plays first.

    2. Keep another backup who can play first against LHP. They have one on a minor league deal, Cuthbert, a former KC RHH who plays third and first. Hits lefties well.

    3. Reds have four starting caliber OFers, use one or more at first occasionally. Cast and Senzel are both former infielders. Let them work in ST at first base for occasional use.
    Castellanos at 1B and Aquino or a similar acquisition in RF makes sense. I prefer Senzel at 2B and Moose at 1B, but there isn't a RH Centerfielder. Shogo as a lefty shouldn't be the sub against LHP. Since they have Farmer, maybe Stephenson should get some reps at 1B. A third catcher helps make that possible.
    Last edited by mth123; 02-22-2021 at 03:27 PM.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  14. #55
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    I don’t get the argument about if he puts the team first. As long as he’s staying in good shape and not doing idiotic things in his personal life that would affect his availability he’s doing his part IMO.

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Joey Votto is the best Red since Barry Larkin. He's the greatest Reds hitter of my lifetime. He's won an MVP, almost a 2nd, and has a career OBP that is amongst the all-time greats.

    It's not unreasonable for JV to still OPS .800 by getting rest frequently. He can still be a 2-3 win player if used properly.

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  17. #57
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    I don’t get the argument about if he puts the team first. As long as he’s staying in good shape and not doing idiotic things in his personal life that would affect his availability he’s doing his part IMO.
    But he drives an expensive car and drinks fancy coffees. Can the entire team fit in his car? Did he buy coffee for everyone?
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  18. #58
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    So who will Reds fans blame when Votto is gone?
    Go Gators!

  19. #59
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    So who will Reds fans blame when Votto is gone?
    Adam Dunn's chair.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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  21. #60
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    So who will Reds fans blame when Votto is gone?
    If he lives up to his reputation, Senzel is the obvious choice. But if he’s just a solid player, he won’t be good enough to get blamed for everything.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769024


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