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Thread: Votto 2021 Thread

  1. #61
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    So who will Reds fans blame when Votto is gone?
    Homer Bailey's contract


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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    So who will Reds fans blame when Votto is gone?
    Luis Castillo.
    Gratitude + Forgiveness = Happiness
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    Luis Castillo.
    He'd check all the boxes.

    How about Castellanos?

    Or Suarez?

    Whomever has the most expensive contract will always be the answer.

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    He'd check all the boxes.

    How about Castellanos?

    Or Suarez?

    Whomever has the most expensive contract will always be the answer.
    Truth, and here is the great irony ... if the Reds ownership does NOT hand out huge contracts to FA's, fans accuse them of being too cheap to win. If Reds ownership signs their own players to huge contracts, fans accuse them of committing to horrible contracts.

    It's this simple. If you want the best hitter in baseball ... then you are going to have to pay him like he's the best hitter in baseball. And that means you are still going to be dishing out big money, even when the best hitter in baseball is no longer the best hitter.

    It's really a no win situation. Pretty much, at the end of the day, the same handful of teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.), are the only teams that can afford the superstars.
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

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  8. #65
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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post

    It's really a no win situation. Pretty much, at the end of the day, the same handful of teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.), are the only teams that can afford the superstars.
    Not the only ones that can sign them, but the only ones that can correct their course when one or two of those go bad. That's the problem in my eyes, if rich teams want to saddle themselves with bad contract after bad contract (Angels come to mind) and not die on the vine that's a problem.

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    Truth, and here is the great irony ... if the Reds ownership does NOT hand out huge contracts to FA's, fans accuse them of being too cheap to win. If Reds ownership signs their own players to huge contracts, fans accuse them of committing to horrible contracts.

    It's this simple. If you want the best hitter in baseball ... then you are going to have to pay him like he's the best hitter in baseball. And that means you are still going to be dishing out big money, even when the best hitter in baseball is no longer the best hitter.

    It's really a no win situation. Pretty much, at the end of the day, the same handful of teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.), are the only teams that can afford the superstars.
    I didn't really have a problem with Votto's contract at the time, but you sign a guy like that with the intent on him leading the team to success on the field. To then begin tanking right as the extension kicked in never made any sense. If you sign a guy like that, try to win while he's in his prime and start the tank job in his decline phase. The Reds have done the exact opposite. When the REds decided to tank, the move was to go to Votto and get his permission to move him and let the team truely start over. Instead, as the team is trying to emerge from it's tanking past, his upside down out years are an obstacle to the rebound.

    Votto's the best reds hitter ever and has already earned all the money he'll be paid statistcially, but none of that money is helping the team on the field. The Reds tanked on his way up and now the tail end of the deal is an obstacle. My problem where Votto is concerned isn't with Votto, it's on the foolish way the Reds went about it.
    Last edited by mth123; 02-24-2021 at 07:14 AM.
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    Revering4Blue (02-23-2021)

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I didn't really have a problem with Votto's contract at the time, but you sign a guy like that with the intent on him leading the team to success on the field. To then begin tanking right as the extension kicked in never made any sense. If you signa guy like that, try towin while he's in his prime and start the tank job in his decline phase. The Reds have done the exact opposite. When teh REds decided to tank, the move was to go to Votto and get his permission to move him and let teh team truely start over. Instead, as the team is trying to emerge from it's tanking past, his upside down out years are an obstacle to the rebound.

    Votto's the best reds hitter ever and has already earned all the money he'll be paud statistcially, but none of that money is helping the team on the field. The Reds tanked on his way up and now the tail end of the deal is an obstacle. My problem where Votto is concerned isn't with Votto, it's on the foolish way the Reds went about it.
    I totally agree. I think we all knew (or should have known) the last 3-4 years of the contract were going to not look great from a production standpoint so wasting his prime was a mismanagement problem of the Reds, not Votto

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Votto's most important position now is being the dead horse. It's unfortunate, but someone has to be it. I've never been a Votto fan. The way he plays the game just isn't interesting to me. But he has been an outstanding Red. You couldn't have asked anything more out of a player. As far as the contract goes, it played out almost exactly how any smart person would have expected. We all have been lucky to see Joey Votto play as a Red in our lifetime. He is an all-time great.
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

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    HammerTime (02-23-2021)

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Fly View Post
    Votto's most important position now is being the dead horse. It's unfortunate, but someone has to be it. I've never been a Votto fan. The way he plays the game just isn't interesting to me. But he has been an outstanding Red. You couldn't have asked anything more out of a player. As far as the contract goes, it played out almost exactly how any smart person would have expected. We all have been lucky to see Joey Votto play as a Red in our lifetime. He is an all-time great.
    I honestly can't think of one of these contracts that didn't play out this way. We all knew this is how it would end. Just enjoy these last few years of Votto.

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    like trevor bauer (aka jup) said on this very board over the weekend, votto sounds good when he talks like this. but will he actually do it? we shall see.

    i will say this: if he's 100% serious about being a masher and not up there taking half swings and choking way up on the bat on 3-1 counts ... i still believe votto can be a force. but he needs to take his own advice and get back to his old mindset. not chasing bad pitches. he will never do that and that's what makes him great. but when he gets a good pitch, go at it aggressively like he used to. if he does that, votto could have one more good year in him. not mvp caliber, but a good year. like votto said himself, he needs to be "dangerous." he used to be one of the most dangerous batters in the game. now, i think zero pitchers fear him. he needs to change that.

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    I have complete confidence that Votto will have an OPS of .850+ this season, and these numbers would not surprise me at all. .310/.390/.460/.850

    Should he not reach any of those three numbers, it will be because of injury shortening his season to less than 300 PA's. If I had to put an over/under on those three, I would go .295/.375/.445/.820.

    So, I have him in the range of .280-.310/.360-.390/.430-.460/.790-.850. I find this to be very reasonable for the 1st Ballot Hall-of-Famer. He can fall off the cliff after that and let age finally take it's toll.

    Watch Votto outdo everyone's opinions of him and produce a .900 OPS. Wouldn't surprise me at all from this man with a plan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    like trevor bauer (aka jup) said on this very board over the weekend, votto sounds good when he talks like this. but will he actually do it? we shall see.

    i will say this: if he's 100% serious about being a masher and not up there taking half swings and choking way up on the bat on 3-1 counts ... i still believe votto can be a force. but he needs to take his own advice and get back to his old mindset. not chasing bad pitches. he will never do that and that's what makes him great. but when he gets a good pitch, go at it aggressively like he used to. if he does that, votto could have one more good year in him. not mvp caliber, but a good year. like votto said himself, he needs to be "dangerous." he used to be one of the most dangerous batters in the game. now, i think zero pitchers fear him. he needs to change that.
    For every time Votto has been overestimated about, he's been underestimated about ten times.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    I think most fans would agree that the REDS' issues have always been mismanagement of the franchise with the funds that are spent and the assets in posession and not how much money gets spent.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    I think most fans would agree that the REDS' issues have always been mismanagement of the franchise with the funds that are spent and the assets in posession and not how much money gets spent.
    I agree generally but it really hurts when they have a glaring need to improve and have the opportunity to improve, but don't. This offseason at shortstop, for example - I don't think $5-$10M on a one or two year commitment is too much to expect as a fan. The Ryan Ludwick injury after 2013 was also another glaring example - just claim Byrd!

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    JFLegal (02-23-2021)

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    So who will Reds fans blame when Votto is gone?
    This is what many Votto fans do anytime any level of criticism gets put on Votto. Who exactly is blaming the Reds losing strictly on Votto???????? Nobody is blaming Votto. What player wouldn’t have signed that contract offer? There are parts of Votto’s game that frustrates some of us. Is he above that? Obviously he is to some if that gets translated into we believe that Votto is the blame for all things negative with the Reds. Maybe anyone that says anything at all negative about Votto should be banned from the board, that would fit right in with the way the rest of the world is going these days.

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    JFLegal (02-23-2021)

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    Re: Votto 2021 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Loyalist View Post
    This is what many Votto fans do anytime any level of criticism gets put on Votto. Who exactly is blaming the Reds losing strictly on Votto???????? Nobody is blaming Votto. What player wouldn’t have signed that contract offer? There are parts of Votto’s game that frustrates some of us. Is he above that? Obviously he is to some if that gets translated into we believe that Votto is the blame for all things negative with the Reds. Maybe anyone that says anything at all negative about Votto should be banned from the board, that would fit right in with the way the rest of the world is going these days.
    Don't light a match, the straw men will go up in flames...

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