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Thread: Geno to short?

  1. #46
    Member tripleaaaron's Avatar
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    IMO with Suarez at short the defense would probably get worse in 4-5 positions. Short, second, Cf, LF and arguably RF.

    Short - Suarez was moved off short for a reason. He’s had some trouble at third, shortstop is harder.

    Second- Senzel has totally devoted himself to CF for two years. What’s to say he’d adjust back to middle infield defense so successfully?

    CF - Senzel at this point has more range than Shogo. You lose that.

    LF - With Shogo in CF full time, Winker stays in LF full time.

    RF - Shogo now is available to play some RF, but again he’ll be the full time CFer under the new order.

    SS: 100% agree
    2B: don’t agree, I think Senzel is better than Moose there. But again. Agree that it may not be best to move Senzel again.
    3B: a tick worse but Moose is better here than 2B
    LF: I would never start Shogo over our best offensive player in Winker. So this is asinine to me. (But by never I mean as a starter, not mentioning days off).
    CF: legs aren’t the only thing. Experience makes up for legs a bit. Grade it a wash for sake of argument. AND with Naquin in the fold I don’t care about backups as he is a wash.
    RF: again. Don’t care about backup defense with naquin and Aquino here. A wash at this spot.

    I agree overall defense might be a tick worse but offensively we outweigh this pretty heavily. IMO. Again I think it comes down to future view of who fits we where in 2022 and betond as well.
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  4. #47
    Baseball means warmth Joeyjection19's Avatar
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    IMO with Suarez at short the defense would probably get worse in 4-5 positions. Short, second, Cf, LF and arguably RF.

    Short - Suarez was moved off short for a reason. He’s had some defensive issues at third, shortstop is harder and requires more range.

    Second- Senzel has totally devoted himself to CF for two years or more. What’s to say he’d adjust back to middle infield defense so readily? Reds have declined to play him in infield even as a backup.

    CF - Senzel at this point has more range than Shogo. You lose that.

    LF - With Shogo in CF full time, Winker stays in LF full time.

    RF - Shogo currently is available to play some RF, but again he’ll be the full time CFer under the new order.
    Sure, but if Lorenzen is awful, you slot him in at CF. Winker's defense can be hidden at 1B because Votto was always destined to play LF, per RedsZone circa 2009.

  5. #48
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleaaaron View Post
    SS: 100% agree
    2B: don’t agree, I think Senzel is better than Moose there. But again. Agree that it may not be best to move Senzel again.
    3B: a tick worse but Moose is better here than 2B
    LF: I would never start Shogo over our best offensive player in Winker. So this is asinine to me. (But by never I mean as a starter, not mentioning days off).
    CF: legs aren’t the only thing. Experience makes up for legs a bit. Grade it a wash for sake of argument. AND with Naquin in the fold I don’t care about backups as he is a wash.
    RF: again. Don’t care about backup defense with naquin and Aquino here. A wash at this spot.

    I agree overall defense might be a tick worse but offensively we outweigh this pretty heavily. IMO. Again I think it comes down to future view of who fits we where in 2022 and betond as well.
    You may think it’s “asinine” but the current plan is to rotate four outfielders to some extent. That includes Winker, whose LF defense is below average. And even when Winker starts, he will be lifted for Shogo for defensive purposes in some games.

    This new lineup is for those who look at baseball strictly through the prism of offensive stats. Thankfully the Reds won’t view it that way.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-24-2021 at 02:17 PM.

  6. #49
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Senzel said in the past he wants to have one defensive spot and stick to it?

  7. #50
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Senzel said in the past he wants to have one defensive spot and stick to it?
    Don’t know - but GM Krall said in a recent broadcast that Senzel is his starting CFer.

  8. #51
    Thanks a lot, Bowie Kuhn Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Kearns can play 3rd as well.
    So can Konerko.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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  10. #52
    Moderator cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Kearns can play 3rd as well.
    Johnny Bench did too. We can always use another statue in the infield.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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  12. #53
    he/him *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    I could get behind Suarez at SS, but would recognize that most of his value at 3B would be tanked by a significantly below average SS glove. Perhaps shifting would help, but he'd be a 2.0 WAR player at SS (I suspect) even if his bat rebounds to 2019 levels.
    How big of a runs gap do you expect from Suarez between 3B and SS and are you taking the positional adjustment he'll receive for his offensive contributions coming from SS into account for that 2.0 WAR projection?

  13. #54
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Kearns can play 3rd as well.
    So can Wily Mo!

    Last edited by klw; 02-24-2021 at 02:47 PM.

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  15. #55
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    Re: Geno to short?

    so can cliff cook

  16. #56
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Bobby Nightengale
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    6m
    Eugenio Suárez says he feels like he could play SS, but it's out of his control. He says maybe he'll get an opportunity to play a game there in spring training. #Reds

    Bobby Nightengale
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    Eugenio Suárez goal this year is hitting more than 49 homers (which he did in 2019). "I feel like this is going to be a special year for me." #Reds

    Bobby Nightengale
    @nightengalejr
    ·
    23m
    Eugenio Suárez says he lost 15 pounds this offseason. Changed his diet. He said last year was tough for him overall and he felt slow with his footwork. #Reds

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  18. #57
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Berenyi View Post
    so can cliff cook
    I don't know if Cliff can cook but I can name three people who have never been in his kitchen.


    Last edited by klw; 02-24-2021 at 03:00 PM.

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  20. #58
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleaaaron View Post
    SS: 100% agree
    2B: don’t agree, I think Senzel is better than Moose there. But again. Agree that it may not be best to move Senzel again.
    3B: a tick worse but Moose is better here than 2B
    LF: I would never start Shogo over our best offensive player in Winker. So this is asinine to me. (But by never I mean as a starter, not mentioning days off).
    CF: legs aren’t the only thing. Experience makes up for legs a bit. Grade it a wash for sake of argument. AND with Naquin in the fold I don’t care about backups as he is a wash.
    RF: again. Don’t care about backup defense with naquin and Aquino here. A wash at this spot.

    I agree overall defense might be a tick worse but offensively we outweigh this pretty heavily. IMO. Again I think it comes down to future view of who fits we where in 2022 and betond as well.
    Geno was excellent at ss, and was moved only because the Reds lost Frazier, and still had Zack Cozart in 2016. He’s a fine shortstop, and with his bat, he’d be up there with the top ss in the league.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  21. #59
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Geno to short?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    How big of a runs gap do you expect from Suarez between 3B and SS and are you taking the positional adjustment he'll receive for his offensive contributions coming from SS into account for that 2.0 WAR projection?
    Yeah, I admit I have little clue, BC. I assume Saurez would be among the worst everyday SS defensively, with an almost complete lack of range hindering his defensive numbers. His body type is similar to that of Asdrubal Cabrera and Jorge Polanco. Neither has good range at the spot, and it shows in their metrics. Cabrera's overall SS UZR/150 stands at -6.8. Polanco's numbers are worse-- -10.9. His Statcast numbers also peg Polanco as a net negative defender, costing the Twins 16 outs below average. The inability of Polanco (and 2019 Gregorius) to move aggressively forward after balls really killed their numbers. This was already a weakness for Suarez, according to his defensive metrics at 3B. (This is one of the reasons why I suspect he'd be playable, perhaps, but poor.

    I'm guessing Suarez would be somewhere around those guys. If that's where he is, you're right that he might be able to earn three or even four WAR as a SS. (This would depend on how adept/ lucky the Reds would be at shifting and how sure-handed he'd be at the position.) He could slug his way to an All-Star season pretty easily as an old school Ernie Banks clone.

    It's a total WAG, I fully admit.

    It's also (again, IMO) the best use of the personnel they have now. Suarez at SS, Moustakas or Senzel at 3B, and the other at 2B eases the logjam in the OF and gives ABs to Winker instead of Garcia. I like that trade-off for 2021, personally, even fully realizing that it makes Cincinnati worse defensively at four spots on the field.
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 02-24-2021 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: Geno to short?


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