Tejay Antone in the bullpen?

[Kc61]

I mostly agree that the back end of the rotation will shake out over the course of ST and the early part of the season, and the best guys will likely get their innings. But it is becoming clear that Antone has the most tantalizing stuff after Castillo/Gray/Mahle and appears to be determined to win a spot. Obviously health will play a major role, and also in-game durability as you mention.

I kind of wish they'd just give Lorenzen the closer role (a nice consolation prize to starting) and pencil Antone and Miley into the back of the rotation.

It’s more than the tantalizing stuff. For a starter it’s control, multiple good pitches, length and consistency too.

I think Reds intended (probably still do) to start the higher salaried guys, Lorenzen and Miley.

But if DJ sees a true average or better MLB starter in Antone he’ll start him. Especially with the Bauer slot open. Good starters have much value.

[RedTeamGo!]

If Reds think Antone is clearly the best candidate for effective, consistent 5 inning outings, he will and should get the job. I don’t think Reds will assign him to the pen at the expense of the rotation.

Where I disagree with some is that Reds will decide rotation spots based on early ST two inning showings. Reds know Antone can be great in short stints, he proved that last season.

It isn’t easy to find true, effective starting pitchers today. If DJ is convinced Antone is the real deal as a starter, it’ll be tough to keep him in pen.

Lorenzen and Miley’s contracts say otherwise. Lorenzen would have gotten non-tendered if they planned on putting him in the pen. He had a couple solid starts last year, he is going to make a decent amount in 21 so to the rotation he goes. Lorenzen will get every chance to succeed (or fail). If Antone makes the rotation it will be in like July or something. The reds will always reds.

[Old school 1983]

I think TJ has the potential to not only be the best starter on the Reds, but one of the best in the league. Start this man until he proves he shouldn’t. Period. Miley and Lorenzen can get over it.

[Kc61]

Lorenzen and Miley’s contracts say otherwise. Lorenzen would have gotten non-tendered if they planned on putting him in the pen. He had a couple solid starts last year, he is going to make a decent amount in 21 so to the rotation he goes. Lorenzen will get every chance to succeed (or fail). If Antone makes the rotation it will be in like July or something. The reds will always reds.

Yes, this has been my argument since arbitration.

But Reds didn’t replace Bauer and if DJ sees a true high level starter in the ranks my guess is they’ll start him. But we’re not there yet, still early days of ST.

[REDREAD]

Lorenzen and Miley’s contracts say otherwise. Lorenzen would have gotten non-tendered if they planned on putting him in the pen. He had a couple solid starts last year, he is going to make a decent amount in 21 so to the rotation he goes. Lorenzen will get every chance to succeed (or fail). If Antone makes the rotation it will be in like July or something. The reds will always reds.

The Reds might be hoping that Lorenzen puts in a good first half as a starter so that he's more marketable at the deadline too.
If he has a good first half as a starter in 2021, that's a pretty marketable asset.. a guy that can start and have plus stuff out of the pen. At least more marketable than Lorenzen has been in the past (not that he's been bad).

[RedTeamGo!]

The Reds might be hoping that Lorenzen puts in a good first half as a starter so that he's more marketable at the deadline too.
If he has a good first half as a starter in 2021, that's a pretty marketable asset.. a guy that can start and have plus stuff out of the pen. At least more marketable than Lorenzen has been in the past (not that he's been bad).

Good point, hadn’t thought about shining him up at the deadline.

[membengal]

Maybe the team could shine up the best possible starting pitching staff instead?

[RedTeamGo!]

Maybe the team could shine up the best possible starting pitching staff instead?

Just to be exceedingly clear, wasn’t advocating for trading Lorenzen. Was simply saying I hadn’t thought of the Reds doing that. Not everything is a nail.

[membengal]

Just to be exceedingly clear, wasn’t advocating for trading Lorenzen. Was simply saying I hadn’t thought of the Reds doing that. Not everything is a nail.

I don't care what they do with Lorenzen. But I do want them to put their best 5 in the rotation, not give one spot to a guy they are hoping they can shine up for the deadline is all. If Lorenzen is the best and shows it, fine. But hoping to flip him should not be the part of any equation.

[UPRedsFan]

I think TJ has the potential to not only be the best starter on the Reds, but one of the best in the league. Start this man until he proves he shouldn’t. Period. Miley and Lorenzen can get over it.

Yes he has potential but he started 4 games in 2020. He was much stronger out of the pen.
In his 4 starts he only logged 16 innings, his control wasn't as sharp, and he got hit more (1.8 SO/W and .798 OPS against). Out of the pen in 2 inning stints he was almost untouchable ( 4.5 SO/W and .377 OPS against). I'm ok with Miley/Lorenzen until one of them proves they can't be counted on for 5 innings.

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't care what they do with Lorenzen. But I do want them to put their best 5 in the rotation, not give one spot to a guy they are hoping they can shine up for the deadline is all. If Lorenzen is the best and shows it, fine. But hoping to flip him should not be the part of any equation.

I am unsure what their opinion of Lorenzen is. They seem to like him way more than I do. It’s very possible they view Lorenzen as one of their 5 best starters. Just because they view him as so doesn’t make him so in reality.

I am not a Lorenzen fan and never have been. I think he’s a one trick pony, and it’s not even a consistent trick.

[membengal]

I am unsure what their opinion of Lorenzen is. They seem to like him way more than I do. It’s very possible they view Lorenzen as one of their 5 best starters. Just because they view him as so doesn’t make him so in reality.

I am not a Lorenzen fan and never have been. I think he’s a one trick pony, and it’s not even a consistent trick.

You and I are in the same place on him.

[REDREAD]

I don't care what they do with Lorenzen. But I do want them to put their best 5 in the rotation, not give one spot to a guy they are hoping they can shine up for the deadline is all. If Lorenzen is the best and shows it, fine. But hoping to flip him should not be the part of any equation.

It's something to keep in mind though. The Reds are an aging team, a lot of guys are on the current roster are not going to be here in 2-3 more years. The farm system isn't exactly full of prospects either.
The Reds need to decide how much longer they are going to try to win with this group, and when they are going to start rebuilding. I can see the point of view of people that think the Reds could compete this year. I don't want to debate that.

But remember, the last time the Reds were good, then rebuilt, there was a lot of talk about how the Reds waited too long to trade certain people? I'm not calling out anyone, but those calls are easy to make in hindsight. The Reds are going to have to decide when they want to shift gears (if at all) back to rebuilding.. Lorenzen isn't a critical piece to trade, but Gray and Castillo are.

If the Reds have already decided that they probably aren't going to resign Lorenzen next year, it kind of makes sense to try to flip him for something useful this year, even if they intend on competing in 2021-2022. IMO, Lorenzen is probably going to out perform Miley, so if we want Antone in the rotation, I would bump Miley to the pen if someone needed to be bumped.
Reality? Lorenzen and Miley are two of the higher paid guys on the pitching staff, they are likely to get first crack at the rotation. I agree, it's not necessarily fair, but if we are going to guess what the Reds are going to do.. that's the safest bet.

[Ash11]

It's something to keep in mind though. The Reds are an aging team, a lot of guys are on the current roster are not going to be here in 2-3 more years. The farm system isn't exactly full of prospects either.
The Reds need to decide how much longer they are going to try to win with this group, and when they are going to start rebuilding. I can see the point of view of people that think the Reds could compete this year. I don't want to debate that.

But remember, the last time the Reds were good, then rebuilt, there was a lot of talk about how the Reds waited too long to trade certain people? I'm not calling out anyone, but those calls are easy to make in hindsight. The Reds are going to have to decide when they want to shift gears (if at all) back to rebuilding.. Lorenzen isn't a critical piece to trade, but Gray and Castillo are.

If the Reds have already decided that they probably aren't going to resign Lorenzen next year, it kind of makes sense to try to flip him for something useful this year, even if they intend on competing in 2021-2022. IMO, Lorenzen is probably going to out perform Miley, so if we want Antone in the rotation, I would bump Miley to the pen if someone needed to be bumped.
Reality? Lorenzen and Miley are two of the higher paid guys on the pitching staff, they are likely to get first crack at the rotation. I agree, it's not necessarily fair, but if we are going to guess what the Reds are going to do.. that's the safest bet.

How can a team be as bad as the reds for so long, and have so many high rnd 1 and 2 picks, and still have a bottom tier farm system? It’s like they try to be incompetent

[RedTeamGo!]

How can a team be as bad as the reds for so long, and have so many high rnd 1 and 2 picks, and still have a bottom tier farm system? It’s like they try to be incompetent

They actually haven’t had that many top rnd 1 and 2 picks. Senzel, India, and Greene were their only top 5 picks going back to 2007. I’d say the book is still out on all three of those players. If you actually go back and look at the picks in those drafts they hit on many of the picks. From like 2011-2014 they were drafting at the back end of the draft. When they selected Phil Ervin he was actually the last pick of the first round (and actually made it to the majors).

Now, I am not arguing the Reds have done a great job drafting, they had some epic misses in the first round (Howard and Travieso), but they were mid first round picks and news flash: after like the first 3 picks the draft is a complete and utter crapshoot. The reds farm isn’t highly rated right now, but there uh, wasn’t a minor league season in 2020, so the rankings mean very little after the top 5 or so farms. If Greene, India, Hendrick, Hinds, etc show up and show out the reds farm could easily be a top 10 farm by the end of the season. Also, the Reds traded away Downs and Gray. If they had kept them they would be at least a top 10-15 farm right now. Either way, you’re ignoring a lot of context.