Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 215

Thread: I'm not missing Shogo

  1. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    30,924

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    This is his claim.

    What happens to that cash reserve if the pandemic eases?

    If the owners get it, we'll know he was full of crap.
    And I’m not excusing the Reds for their overall unwillingness or inability to do what it takes to become serious contenders.

    But it does seem they were totally blind-sided by the pandemic coming immediately after their first big FA deals in years.

    Whether the owners will loosen the reigns once the pandemic passes, nobody knows, and I understand fans’ skepticism.


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    7,109

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Whether the owners will loosen the reigns once the pandemic passes, nobody knows, and I understand fans’ skepticism.
    I wasn't clear-- I was agreeing with you (at least in part). I was merely trying to explain that we need a bit of patience in determining the truthfulness of his claim. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

  4. Likes:

    Kc61 (03-21-2021)

  5. #33
    Member Mitri's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,388

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    This is his claim.

    What happens to that cash reserve if the pandemic eases?

    If the owners get it, we'll know he was full of crap.
    2021 and 2022 are going to be rough years for a lot of entertainment businesses. The pandemic could fully disappear tomorrow and it wouldn't change the economic reality of our situation here in the U.S. There are a lot of jobs that will never come back, or will take years to get back. I'm not defending Reds ownership for cutting back payroll this year, just pointing out that the comparative revenue lost from last year's lost season, this season and likely 2022 is what will be driving many of the decisions of small to mid-market teams like Cincinnati. It's just reality.

  6. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,337

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Bob was very clear in his interview this week. The cuts are to create a “reserve” against uncertainty for 2021 due to COVID.

    I agree the Reds have been cheap, but they didn’t spend in 2019-20 anticipating deep cuts in 2021. Why would they do that? These were all multi-year contracts.

    This time Reds were victimized by bad luck, unfortunate timing. That they are less able than other teams to withstand it is another issue.
    I respect your decision to take Bob at his word. I just don't. They need to give me more than 1 year of action

    I'm happy to be wrong, that's just where I'm at.

  7. Likes:

    REDREAD (03-21-2021)

  8. #35
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    27,591

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    The Reds ownership has been historically cheap. I apologize if I just don't buy the pandemic being the reason for cost cutting
    The current ownership has been schizophrenic when it comes to spending. When they bought the team, the started spending, were committed to winning, and it paid off in 2010-2013. They then spent even more, locking up their best players on expensive, long term deals. Then in 2016, they slashed payroll and were committed to tanking. Then in 2019, they started spending again, and before the 2020 season, spent aggressively. Now they are cutting back.

    So I understand your skepticism concerning the Reds spending, but it’s not because they are historically cheap, it’s because they are inconsistent about it.
    That’s why we’re playing, bro

  9. Likes:

    CySeymour (03-21-2021)

  10. #36
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    7,109

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    2021 and 2022 are going to be rough years for a lot of entertainment businesses.
    We'll see.

    I suspect they'll be boom times and that any business that was able to stay solvent through the pandemic will reap massive rewards as soon as this summer. $1.9 trillion-- most of it in the hands of regular folks-- is a step in that direction. People are going to want to go out-- that'll drive economic opportunity. So will small business loans and help from the stimulus signed a couple of weeks ago.

  11. #37
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,776

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I mean, seriously. If you had a choice of Shogo or 7 million to improve this team any way that you wanted to, would you pick Shogo?
    That's a good litmus test.
    You said Shogo was clearly a mistake. Yet your litmus test is ignoring all of the unforeseen circumstances that have occurred since we signed him. To answer your question, right now I would rather have the $7M instead of Shogo. But right now we know there was a global pandemic and a 50 game season that happened after the Shogo signing, and now the Reds are trimming their budget as a result.

    Shogo carried a .357 OBP in a limited season and had a great final month, it is just too soon to tell what he is as a player and if he is worth the contract he was signed for. If he had flopped in a full season with no power and no OBP, we could conclude the signing was clearly a mistake because he just isn't good as a player, but we don't know that yet. He was 0.5-0.8 wins in a 3rd of a season depending on fWAR or bWAR, that pegs him as a decent big leaguer.

    If the plan all along, pandemic or not, was to limit the budget in 2021, then yeah signing Shogo was dumb, but I don't think that was really ever the plan.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  12. Likes:

    ochoa30 (03-21-2021),Ron Madden (03-21-2021),UKFlounder (03-21-2021)

  13. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    30,924

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Last season with the Reds, Shogo had an 18.6% K rate and a 13.6% BB rate.

    These numbers alone make him an attribute to the team.

    I’d prefer Shogo to the other fourth outfielder candidates on the Reds, guys like Aquino, Naquin, Payton.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-21-2021 at 02:13 PM.

  14. Likes:

    Chip R (03-22-2021),Roy Tucker (03-21-2021)

  15. #39
    Corky is The Way Bob Sheed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    This extends to all things...
    Posts
    2,142

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    dp
    “You are not Atlas carrying the world on your shoulder. It is good to remember that the planet is carrying you.”
    ― Vandana Shiva

  16. #40
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    15,678

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    The problem is that Shogo is not very good AND expensive.
    Van Meter was a bad player, but he was on a non guaranteed contract, making minimum salary. So yea, he did not perform (he was worse than Shogo), but he didn't cause a financial pinch. Was he a guy to upgrade from? Of course.
    That's the flaw in your logic. If Shogo was a solid #4 OF like Michael Tucker was, people might be unhappy about his salary, but they would be happy about his performance.
    Some of us aren’t ready to call Shogo a bust because of 2 months of baseball. You do you, though.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  17. Likes:

    Chip R (03-22-2021),HammerTime (03-21-2021),ochoa30 (03-21-2021),Old school 1983 (03-21-2021),Ron Madden (03-21-2021),StRedlegs900 (03-21-2021)

  18. #41
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,337

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The current ownership has been schizophrenic when it comes to spending. When they bought the team, the started spending, were committed to winning, and it paid off in 2010-2013. They then spent even more, locking up their best players on expensive, long term deals. Then in 2016, they slashed payroll and were committed to tanking. Then in 2019, they started spending again, and before the 2020 season, spent aggressively. Now they are cutting back.

    So I understand your skepticism concerning the Reds spending, but it’s not because they are historically cheap, it’s because they are inconsistent about it.
    Call it what you want but I seem to remember they funded those teams with the savings from not spending money for years, then rebuilt and cried poor ever since as it has been a push/pull of "fans need to come to the ballpark so we can afford a winner" and "build a winner and we'll come to the ballpark". I'm probably still just bitter that they never went all in when they had the chance. Instead they just waited on Ryan Ludwick to return from injury instead of upgrading the roster.

  19. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (03-22-2021),bm1475 (03-21-2021),REDREAD (03-21-2021)

  20. #42
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,201

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I'm probably still just bitter that they never went all in when they had the chance. Instead they just waited on Ryan Ludwick to return from injury instead of upgrading the roster.
    What's really embarrassing is that it's been 8 years since then and last year's asterisk season is as close as this team has been to a world series.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  21. Likes:

    REDREAD (03-21-2021)

  22. #43
    Member wally post's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New york state
    Posts
    1,399

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    With Castellanos and Senzel hitting and Winker as our LH hitting left fielder, I find myself not concerned about Shogo being out. He's almost reduced to a defensive replacement role (for me). After we lobbied so much for our first Japanese player it would not look good to trade him.

    If Cast has good season and opts out we might need him next year. Expensive back up plan.
    This a great thread - only on Redszone. Thanks JaxRed

  23. #44
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    27,179

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    You said Shogo was clearly a mistake. Yet your litmus test is ignoring all of the unforeseen circumstances that have occurred since we signed him. To answer your question, right now I would rather have the $7M instead of Shogo. But right now we know there was a global pandemic and a 50 game season that happened after the Shogo signing, and now the Reds are trimming their budget as a result.

    Shogo carried a .357 OBP in a limited season and had a great final month, it is just too soon to tell what he is as a player and if he is worth the contract he was signed for. If he had flopped in a full season with no power and no OBP, we could conclude the signing was clearly a mistake because he just isn't good as a player, but we don't know that yet. He was 0.5-0.8 wins in a 3rd of a season depending on fWAR or bWAR, that pegs him as a decent big leaguer.

    If the plan all along, pandemic or not, was to limit the budget in 2021, then yeah signing Shogo was dumb, but I don't think that was really ever the plan.
    If he can maintain that 357 OBP (which his supporters are claiming), then at least it won't be a disaster. I'm just skeptical that he'll be able to maintain that due to his lack of power. His slugging was 297 last year. About half his walks in his last month surge were against the Pirates (I counted it in an other post, I think it was one walk short of 1/2, but I don't remember exactly).

    Just as a comparison to some other fleas we've had, to show how bad a 297 slugging is:

    Billy H has a 325 career slugging
    Tavares has a 327 career slugging
    Peraza has a 372 career slugging.

    If he finds a way to add power this season, I would be more optimistic. I am guessing that doesn't happen though. Pitchers are going to challenge him this year (well, the Pirates are going to be awful, he'll get a lot of walks off them)
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  24. #45
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    13,640

    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    It was a 60 game season where he played 54 games and had 155 AB's


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | Kinsm | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator