Covid-19 Part XII

[Sea Ray]

I've clearly stated that Bernie is in no way "stigmatizing" anyone by excluding them, so he cannot be accused of doing so by you. Stating that such stigmatizing is not happening is not synonymous with supporting stygmatization.

As I can't believe an adult wouldn't actually know that, it's pretty clear that at this point you're just gaslighting, and quite poorly. But then, that's nothing new for you.

If you don't have a point, just repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it one. You need to come up with a new trick, pony.

Come back when you have some facts to add to the conversation.

As for stigmatizing, a much better example is you calling people who opt not to get the vaccine Deplorables. Yeah, that's stigmatizing and we don't need more of that

[Sea Ray]

I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I'd noticed a pretty stark change in behaviors here. Business mask mandates were going away even at pretty busy places, so seeing maskless indoor gatherings was becoming more common. Looking at the case numbers, they have stayed low. No spike in cases, but perhaps a very, very gentle uptick. That's good news. What has me a bit concerned are our vaccine numbers. We were up to close to 5k doses/day, but now it's closer to 3k. And whereas a month ago 75-80% of the doses were first doses, right now it's more like 80% second doses. So I'm afraid we may be getting to the vaccine wall where we run out of people who want it. We're only at about 20% of the population fully vaccinated, so it's way too low a number for us to be stopping.

This is what's not being talked about enough. We are now at a point where supply is outstripping demand. I blindly predicted several months ago that 150 million Americans would voluntarily get vaccinated. We will likely not get the numbers vaccinated that Fauci and his crew desire. Hence C19 numbers will likely not plummet to levels that folks like DeWine want in order to drop mandates thus...

We will get to the point very soon where mandates will/must be dropped, not due to low numbers, but due to the fact that we as a society must move on. The people that want to be protected can do so and we can't worry about the rest. It's a very diverse country. We'll always have folks who will wear masks and those that will never wear them. We'll also have folks who will get vaccinated and get every booster pushed afterwards and we'll have those that will never take a needle in their arm

I think it was a mistake for DeWine to set such numbers for opening up. He's going to have to backtrack on them

[SteelSD]

Come back when you have some facts to add to the conversation.

As for stigmatizing, a much better example is you calling people who opt not to get the vaccine Deplorables. Yeah, that's stigmatizing and we don't need more of that

Yeah, that's never happened. It's one thing to constantly gaslight. Now you're just outright lying.

Generally, when I see someone who's terrible at reasoned debate, they're at least a decent trash-talker. But you? Your level of skill at both is truly deplorable.

[Plus Plus]

This is what's not being talked about enough. We are now at a point where supply is outstripping demand. I blindly predicted several months ago that 150 million Americans would voluntarily get vaccinated. We will likely not get the numbers vaccinated that Fauci and his crew desire. Hence C19 numbers will likely not plummet to levels that folks like DeWine want in order to drop mandates thus...

We will get to the point very soon where mandates will/must be dropped, not due to low numbers, but due to the fact that we as a society must move on. The people that want to be protected can do so and we can't worry about the rest. It's a very diverse country. We'll always have folks who will wear masks and those that will never wear them. We'll also have folks who will get vaccinated and get every booster pushed afterwards and we'll have those that will never take a needle in their arm

I think it was a mistake for DeWine to set such numbers for opening up. He's going to have to backtrack on them

The alternative is to keep mask mandates in place and say things like "hey we still need x people to get vaccinated to reach our total of y, where we will drop the mask mandate" and hope that social pressure or people who believe in the "fact that we as a society must move on" will get the vaccine.

It's like with the baseball 85% rule, or like pediatricians with anti-vax parents. You can choose not to get the vaccine (covid or otherwise given my examples), but there are consequences to making that choice. A world where people get to do whatever they want without consequence isn't a path forward.

[Falls City Beer]

Full disclosure: I received the J & J vaccine about two weeks ago. So did my wife and adult daughter.

We’re perfectly fine and I see no cause for concern going forward.

Nevertheless, I’m sympathetic to those who aren’t in a rush to get the vaccine. There’s something in the risk-reward analysis that is probably nagging at a lot people right now: “I don’t want to get sick from this vaccine even for 48 hours because my family needs my income” or “I’m an otherwise extremely healthy person with zero vulnerable relatives who works from home and masks up and stays distant” seem like understandable positions even though I don’t personally share those circumstances.

Those positions may not be perfectly logical, but they are understandable.

[Boston Red]

They could be, but I suspect that describes a very small portion of the vaccine hesitant.

Also, I hear Plus Plus on being stubborn and not rolling back restrictions/mandates where not enough people are being vaccinated. But I'm fully vaccinated and not waiting on those people. We're back to life. Feel free to join us those of you who won't get vaccinated. If you get sick, I'm not going to feel much sympathy.

[757690]

Full disclosure: I received the J & J vaccine about two weeks ago. So did my wife and adult daughter.

We’re perfectly fine and I see no cause for concern going forward.

Nevertheless, I’m sympathetic to those who aren’t in a rush to get the vaccine. There’s something in the risk-reward analysis that is probably nagging at a lot people right now: “I don’t want to get sick from this vaccine even for 48 hours because my family needs my income” or “I’m an otherwise extremely healthy person with zero vulnerable relatives who works from home and masks up and stays distant” seem like understandable positions even though I don’t personally share those circumstances.

Those positions may not be perfectly logical, but they are understandable.

I can understand them, but I am not sympathetic to them at all. They are making clearly illogical, irrational decisions that is making it harder for society to get back to normal, thus hurting themselves and everyone else. They deserved to be called out and attempted to change their minds.

[Sea Ray]

Yeah, that's never happened. It's one thing to constantly gaslight. Now you're just outright lying.

Generally, when I see someone who's terrible at reasoned debate, they're at least a decent trash-talker. But you? Your level of skill at both is truly deplorable.

That is what you said. Here's your quote for everyone to see:

Why do you think laws and ordinances are in place to help ensure that you do NOT pump sewage into your yard, your neighbor's yard, or the street? It's to protect the health and safety of others- something you state, quite clearly, that you bear no responsibility for. The reality is quite different, despite your unwillingness or inability to identify it.

We are constantly faced with having the responsibility of looking out for our neighbors. The problem is when we're faced with someone like you who thinks that they should only look out for themselves, because what they really mean is that everyone else should be looking out for them instead. Deplorable.

You don't have to squint to see that you're saying that anyone who says "I'm not going to get the vaccine in order to protect my neighbor" is deplorable.

We don't need more talk like that Steel. Most people outgrew bullying in elementary school. You're still stuck there. It's too bad but you are an outlier here on RZ so there's that. I for one refuse to be bullied by you. I get how that frustrates you. I hope my standing up to you will decrease your bullying tactics towards others but it probably won't. I get it

[Sea Ray]

The alternative is to keep mask mandates in place and say things like "hey we still need x people to get vaccinated to reach our total of y, where we will drop the mask mandate" and hope that social pressure or people who believe in the "fact that we as a society must move on" will get the vaccine.

It's like with the baseball 85% rule, or like pediatricians with anti-vax parents. You can choose not to get the vaccine (covid or otherwise given my examples), but there are consequences to making that choice. A world where people get to do whatever they want without consequence isn't a path forward.

That is another option. Do you think that'll work? You think that'll entice many people to get vaccinated? Let me put it this way: I wouldn't advise such a strategy

[Sea Ray]

Full disclosure: I received the J & J vaccine about two weeks ago. So did my wife and adult daughter.

We’re perfectly fine and I see no cause for concern going forward.

Nevertheless, I’m sympathetic to those who aren’t in a rush to get the vaccine. There’s something in the risk-reward analysis that is probably nagging at a lot people right now: “I don’t want to get sick from this vaccine even for 48 hours because my family needs my income” or “I’m an otherwise extremely healthy person with zero vulnerable relatives who works from home and masks up and stays distant” seem like understandable positions even though I don’t personally share those circumstances.

Those positions may not be perfectly logical, but they are understandable.

Here I'm going to pivot. I do NOT think that strategy is understandable. Who can't take two days off of work? Schedule your shots accordingly. I scheduled mine on a Friday for that very reason. As it turned out, I didn't have any symptoms that would have caused me to miss work but whatever.

- - - Updated - - -

They could be, but I suspect that describes a very small portion of the vaccine hesitant.

Also, I hear Plus Plus on being stubborn and not rolling back restrictions/mandates where not enough people are being vaccinated. But I'm fully vaccinated and not waiting on those people. We're back to life. Feel free to join us those of you who won't get vaccinated. If you get sick, I'm not going to feel much sympathy.

Exactly. That's where this is headed in most states

[BernieCarbo]

Who can't take two days off of work?

I think you way underestimate the number of people who don't get sick days or PTO.

[Sea Ray]

I think you way underestimate the number of people who don't get sick days or PTO.

There's a few but I bet very few people have to work 6 days a week. I could be wrong

[BernieCarbo]

There's a few but I bet very few people have to work 6 days a week. I could be wrong

Sure, but that isn't what you said. If they can get the shot on their day off, they won't be taking time off from work.

[Sea Ray]

Sure, but that isn't what you said. If they can get the shot on their day off, they won't be taking time off from work.

I really don't understand your point. I'm saying that very few people can't get two days off in a row be a normal schedule or a personal day and whatever you call it. I just don't think this is a significant reason people are refusing the vax. This is totally my opinion. I could be wrong as I stated earlier

[Sea Ray]

It's a long story but I'm going to be taking a quick trip to Texas this week and I'm looking forward to seeing how they're handling the coronavirus. A friend from the area suggested a restaurant for me to try and I was very pleased to see this on their website:

Beginning March 10, 2021, George’s guests will not be required to wear face coverings. However, our employees will continue wearing masks and kindly ask that everyone respects the decisions of others.

This is not possible in a mask mandate state like ours. I will NOT be wearing a mask as I jaunt into that place. Even with the freedom to set such policies, Texas has still not experienced a significant surge in cases since they dropped their mandate and allowed businesses like this one to decide for themselves how to operate.