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Thread: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

  1. #16
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    IF they take Sewell and Marshall and Bateman are both long gone (like I expect) by their pick in the second round, I would rather they take another o-lineman at 38 than select a WR who profiles to the slot or otherwise reach for a WR who plays the outside but who should go a round or two later.

    The depth of this draft at 38 and 69 is at o-line and d-line. IF they go Sewell, they need to lean into that depth and hope to get some project WRs in 4th - 7th rounds.

    It is not my preferred course of action, but what they should do if they go Sewell in 1.

    As always, no reaching.
    The reason I am Team Sewell, is I think OT is a bigger need. I don't think they "need" WR, they can use an outside "WR", but I don't think its as pressing.

    If you go OL in the first, the entire board is open up for the rest of the draft. If you go WR in the first, you kinda pigeonhole yourself into a OL with the 2nd.

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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Bengals finally going forward with a Ring of Honor for their retirees...about time and lends credence to the fact that Mike is slowly losing his grip.

    Also whether Sewell or Chase this draft is going to be fun...
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The reason I am Team Sewell, is I think OT is a bigger need. I don't think they "need" WR, they can use an outside "WR", but I don't think its as pressing.

    If you go OL in the first, the entire board is open up for the rest of the draft. If you go WR in the first, you kinda pigeonhole yourself into a OL with the 2nd.
    I'm with you. I'm not going to cry if we take Chase. I think he's a fair pick. But I think you're really setting yourself up for an even bigger fall next year if Joey gets beat up again. Don't be the Colts.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    I'm with you. I'm not going to cry if we take Chase. I think he's a fair pick. But I think you're really setting yourself up for an even bigger fall next year if Joey gets beat up again. Don't be the Colts.
    Dane Brugler has four tackles with a possible first round draft grade. Once you get past the first three, you have guys who profile as a G or T depending on the team.

    If you tell me that you can guarantee Chase and Leatherwood, I think I would take that.

    However, if you go the route of WR and G, then you still have a gaping hole at T after Reiff.

    I think I have resigned myself to the Bengals taking Chase and continue to patchwork the offensive line for the next seasons.

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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The reason I am Team Sewell, is I think OT is a bigger need. I don't think they "need" WR, they can use an outside "WR", but I don't think its as pressing.

    If you go OL in the first, the entire board is open up for the rest of the draft. If you go WR in the first, you kinda pigeonhole yourself into a OL with the 2nd.
    There is a fundamental disagreement over need. We literally do NOT have a starting offense because of the hole at WR. We are a base "11" offense. That means we start three wide receivers. Right now that is Higgins/Boyd/??????? . We don't have a starter out wide. You can try and sell me on whatever Mike Thomas is or the battleship Auden Tate, but those are TERRIBLE options. As luck would have it, there is an extraordinary WR prospect who had extraordinary production and backed that up w/ extraordinary testing - and plays the position that is literally missing a player on our offense as we took a pass on WR in FA. We actually have a starting five on offensive line. The tackles are Williams and Reiff. The guards are XSF and Spain. The center is Hopkins (when healed)/Price. There is clearly a need to upgrade on line, but that is at guard.

    But you cannot sell me on somehow taking Sewell "opens up" the draft when they would still be heading into the rest of the draft with a gaping chasm of a hole at WR in the WR room.

    I am tired of this argument. I get that a lot of folks are super invested in Sewell. He would be great and would probably slot nicely to RG this year and then out to T next year and that would be swell. But pretending that we don't have a massive need at WR is disingenuous and I don't feel like arguing it at this point. It is not as simple as saying "take one in round 2". If you have not spent time studying the draft you won't appreciate how slot heavy the WR group is this year. We don't need slot. So the options at 38 are to hope that Bateman or Marshall fall (they most likely won't) or reach for Dyami Brown. Or wait. There will be REALLY good o-line talent at 38, and in the Sewell at 5 solution, I would rather they hit line again than reach at WR. And, yes, even with WR being a need. No reaching.

    That's the last from me on this. I know Todd Gack hates it when I post, so peace out.
    Last edited by membengal; 04-08-2021 at 01:59 PM.
    Well, that's what those words mean. He was here. If they don't keep him, he will have been lost/subtracted. I headed out the door today with two shoes on my feet. If I don't return with them, I have lost them. If I do return with them, I haven't added them. ---M2

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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    There is a fundamental disagreement over need. We literally do NOT have a starting offense because of the hole at WR. We are a base "11" offense. That means we start three wide receivers. Right now that is Higgins/Boyd/??????? . We don't have a starter out wide. You can try and sell me on whatever Mike Thomas is or the battleship Auden Tate, but those are TERRIBLE options. As luck would have it, there is an extraordinary WR prospect who had extraordinary production and backed that up w/ extraordinary testing - and plays the position that is literally missing a player on our offense as we took a pass on WR in FA. We actually have a starting five on offensive line. The tackles are Williams and Reiff. The guards are XSF and Spain. The center is Hopkins (when healed)/Price. There is clearly a need to upgrade on line, but that is at guard.

    But you cannot sell me on somehow taking Sewell "opens up" the draft when they would still be heading into the rest of the draft with a gaping chasm of a hole at WR in the WR room.

    I am tired of this argument. I get that a lot of folks are super invested in Sewell. He would be great and would probably slot nicely to RG this year and then out to T next year and that would be swell. But pretending that we don't have a massive need at WR is disingenuous and I don't feel like arguing it at this point. It is not as simple as saying "take one in round 2". If you have not spent time studying the draft you won't appreciate how slot heavy the WR group is this year. We don't need slot. So the options at 38 are to hope that Bateman or Marshall fall (they most likely won't) or reach for Dyami Brown. Or wait. There will be REALLY good o-line talent at 38, and in the Sewell at 5 solution, I would rather they hit line again than reach at WR. And, yes, even with WR being a need. No reaching.

    That's the last from me on this. I know Todd Gack hates it when I post, so peace out.
    I don't hate it when you post. I just think you have an unhealthy obsession with Joe Burrow. And ironically enough you don't even want to make sure he's fully protected from another disaster like last year.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Dane Brugler has four tackles with a possible first round draft grade. Once you get past the first three, you have guys who profile as a G or T depending on the team.

    If you tell me that you can guarantee Chase and Leatherwood, I think I would take that.

    However, if you go the route of WR and G, then you still have a gaping hole at T after Reiff.

    I think I have resigned myself to the Bengals taking Chase and continue to patchwork the offensive line for the next seasons.
    I'm OK with this too. But again, the Bengals are risking an even bigger disaster if they even have 1 big injury on the OL.
    Last edited by Todd Gack; 04-08-2021 at 02:20 PM.

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    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    There is a fundamental disagreement over need. We literally do NOT have a starting offense because of the hole at WR. We are a base "11" offense. That means we start three wide receivers. Right now that is Higgins/Boyd/??????? . We don't have a starter out wide. You can try and sell me on whatever Mike Thomas is or the battleship Auden Tate, but those are TERRIBLE options. As luck would have it, there is an extraordinary WR prospect who had extraordinary production and backed that up w/ extraordinary testing - and plays the position that is literally missing a player on our offense as we took a pass on WR in FA. We actually have a starting five on offensive line. The tackles are Williams and Reiff. The guards are XSF and Spain. The center is Hopkins (when healed)/Price. There is clearly a need to upgrade on line, but that is at guard.

    But you cannot sell me on somehow taking Sewell "opens up" the draft when they would still be heading into the rest of the draft with a gaping chasm of a hole at WR in the WR room.

    I am tired of this argument. I get that a lot of folks are super invested in Sewell. He would be great and would probably slot nicely to RG this year and then out to T next year and that would be swell. But pretending that we don't have a massive need at WR is disingenuous and I don't feel like arguing it at this point. It is not as simple as saying "take one in round 2". If you have not spent time studying the draft you won't appreciate how slot heavy the WR group is this year. We don't need slot. So the options at 38 are to hope that Bateman or Marshall fall (they most likely won't) or reach for Dyami Brown. Or wait. There will be REALLY good o-line talent at 38, and in the Sewell at 5 solution, I would rather they hit line again than reach at WR. And, yes, even with WR being a need. No reaching.

    That's the last from me on this. I know Todd Gack hates it when I post, so peace out.
    Without taking a side in Chase/Sewell (I'll be happy with either), I think some are missing the fact that we start 3 WRs and use that formation a heavy amount of time. So unless those folks are comfortable starting Tate or Michael Thomas at the outside WR opposite Higgins, I'm with you that some either don't understand that or are overlooking it.

    Having said that, I'd be pretty much on Team Chase, but the Bengals didn't do enough to improve the offensive line in free agency that I'm fully comfortable passing on offensive line at 5 unless Sewell is gone, which seems unlikely. Even if they draft a guard in the second round after Chase in the first, they still have a massive need at tackle after this year assuming Reiff leaves when his contract is up. In short, both an outside WR, guard and a long-term tackle are major needs on offense.

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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    I could argue Chase or Sewell with conviction either way

    This team needs a weapon at WR or TE that can get separation and stretch the field. Chase would be perfect for the Bengals and AFC North. Lot less blitzing and more respect needed by defenses. Burrow could be lethal with more quick passes and reads.

    Sewell - Obviously would be a massive upgrade, especially if he started at Guard the first year.

    Pitts - Fills a Huge need. I would stay away just with some injury history at UF

    Was hoping since December that #5 would allow the Bengals to draft one of Chase/Sewell. Now with the Jets moving Darnold and the Niners trade to #3 looks like they will have the choice. Which is fantastic development for the franchise. They desperately need both (who doesn't) but can only get one...

    Mem, keep posting on the draft. Your takes are well respected.

    I lean towards Chase given deeper OT/OL draft for Round 2, but will be more than happy as long as Chase or Sewell are written on the draft card at #5.

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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    I just think you have an unhealthy obsession with Joe Burrow.
    Who doesn't?? Half a season of football and he's already one of my favorite athletes ever (granted, some of that is what he did at LSU, but still.)
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    I think the real move to protect Burrow needs to happen in rounds 3 or 4, where they should take a second lineman (after the first one in Rd 1 or 2). The depth is trash, and Burrow will get destroyed if one of the tackles gets hurt again.
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    I think the real move to protect Burrow needs to happen in rounds 3 or 4, where they should take a second lineman (after the first one in Rd 1 or 2). The depth is trash, and Burrow will get destroyed if one of the tackles gets hurt again.
    Long story short, they need two OL in rounds 1-4.

    I was leaning Sewell earlier but considering the depth of the o-linemen in this class vs receiver depth id rather see them go Chase or Pitts.

    Here’s some names to consider:

    https://www.cincyjungle.com/2021/4/4...innati-bengals
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    I think the real move to protect Burrow needs to happen in rounds 3 or 4, where they should take a second lineman (after the first one in Rd 1 or 2). The depth is trash, and Burrow will get destroyed if one of the tackles gets hurt again.
    We all get sucked into the fallacy that you need to be a first rounder to be a great player. The later on in the draft you go, the more "warts" you see on players. Some end up being great players, others flame out. When the Bengals built quality rosters, they did so by nailing later round picks.

    I can guarantee you there will be a later round WR who ends up making a big splash this next season. It happens each and every year. There will also be a a G or T who ends up becoming the starter out of camp. Its all about finding the right player and fit.

    To answer Mem's post, I don't think WR is as big of a need as T. Granted Higgins isn't fleet of foot and Boyd is a slot WR, the idea you need a burner on the outside for a good corp is lost on me. Ross is a perfect example of a guy who had all the ability but was a bust.

    I think keeping Burrow upright is the most important thing this organization can do. Now you can do that in rounds 2-4, and you can do it rather successfully. But this is also an organization who has failed when the guy they wanted was taken right before them. When they reach, they do so terribly. Billy Price in round 1, they picked Drew Sample in round 2. I look at a team like Pitt, get a mean and nasty OL, and then you can fill in at WR as needed. Lets say Sewell and Chase end up living up to their potential, I can see Sewell being a stalwart OL for a decade. I can see Chase being an AJ Green type of player, or an OBJ or Antiono Brown type of player.

    Here is the crazy thing, a decade ago if I asked you, would your rather invest in Green or Whitworth, the answer would have been Green about 5-1 or more. Turns out that was the wrong choice. Chase may be a great WR, but you solidify the T spot for a decade, you can grab the next Chase. If the T spot continues to be a swinging door, you may be reaching for your next QB far sooner than thought.

  19. #28
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    We all get sucked into the fallacy that you need to be a first rounder to be a great player. The later on in the draft you go, the more "warts" you see on players. Some end up being great players, others flame out. When the Bengals built quality rosters, they did so by nailing later round picks.

    I can guarantee you there will be a later round WR who ends up making a big splash this next season. It happens each and every year. There will also be a a G or T who ends up becoming the starter out of camp. Its all about finding the right player and fit.

    To answer Mem's post, I don't think WR is as big of a need as T. Granted Higgins isn't fleet of foot and Boyd is a slot WR, the idea you need a burner on the outside for a good corp is lost on me. Ross is a perfect example of a guy who had all the ability but was a bust.

    I think keeping Burrow upright is the most important thing this organization can do. Now you can do that in rounds 2-4, and you can do it rather successfully. But this is also an organization who has failed when the guy they wanted was taken right before them. When they reach, they do so terribly. Billy Price in round 1, they picked Drew Sample in round 2. I look at a team like Pitt, get a mean and nasty OL, and then you can fill in at WR as needed. Lets say Sewell and Chase end up living up to their potential, I can see Sewell being a stalwart OL for a decade. I can see Chase being an AJ Green type of player, or an OBJ or Antiono Brown type of player.

    Here is the crazy thing, a decade ago if I asked you, would your rather invest in Green or Whitworth, the answer would have been Green about 5-1 or more. Turns out that was the wrong choice. Chase may be a great WR, but you solidify the T spot for a decade, you can grab the next Chase. If the T spot continues to be a swinging door, you may be reaching for your next QB far sooner than thought.
    The Bengals were dead last in the NFL in overall explosive play rate and explosive passing rate. So the counter to your argument is that if you can score in five or six plays rather than having to always put together 10-12 play drives, that in and of itself lessons the number of throws Burrow makes, which lessens the amount of chances he can get hit. Speed at WR is absolutely a need. They really need to come away with two guys who can punish teams downfield. Whether one of those needs to come at 5 is the question.

    Again, I'm not against going OL in the first round. I just don't know if it makes sense to go OL at 5. Maybe it is all smokescreen, but if the Bengals don't take Sewell, there's buzz that he may fall farther than we think. And even if he doesn't fall, I think I'd rather have Slater and a couple of extra picks than Sewell and no extra picks.

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    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Apparently Jerry Jones really likes Pitts. The Cowboys pick 10th. So, I'd love to see the Cowboys and Bengals swap 1st round picks. The Bengals could add some extra picks while still having a top 10 pick in the 1st round. Granted, it's the Bengals but I can dream.
    Last edited by redsfandan; 04-09-2021 at 11:22 AM.

  21. #30
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    Re: 2021 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: The Chase is On?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    The Bengals were dead last in the NFL in overall explosive play rate and explosive passing rate. So the counter to your argument is that if you can score in five or six plays rather than having to always put together 10-12 play drives, that in and of itself lessons the number of throws Burrow makes, which lessens the amount of chances he can get hit. Speed at WR is absolutely a need. They really need to come away with two guys who can punish teams downfield. Whether one of those needs to come at 5 is the question.

    Again, I'm not against going OL in the first round. I just don't know if it makes sense to go OL at 5. Maybe it is all smokescreen, but if the Bengals don't take Sewell, there's buzz that he may fall farther than we think. And even if he doesn't fall, I think I'd rather have Slater and a couple of extra picks than Sewell and no extra picks.
    Were the Bengals last in explosive plays because their line couldn't protect?

    They had one of the fastest WR's in the game and it didn't matter.

    We are going round and round here. Basically the way I look at it: I want Sewell, I am ok, but not thrilled with Chase, I am pissed if its Pitts.


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