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Thread: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

  1. #31
    rest in power, king Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It’s a trade off. Continuity is important, play your best guys. But there are matchups that suggest using opposite handed hitters.

    Notably he didn’t platoon RHH Castellanos, a high level established hitter. He has no LHH backup infielders. So his one move toward the percentage play is Naquin, who has been hot.

    Assuming that’s what’s gong on, I’ll give Bell a pass - unless he does the same thing tomorrow. I understand why some feel differently.
    I see the logic in it, it just kinda rubs me the wrong way at this point because it seems like the hyper substitution managing style hasn’t worked out for Bell at all in his tenure.

    I’d say one of the things that made Dusty such a successful manager in his time here was the level he went to minimize disruptions in the lineup on a daily basis. He seemed to know how to push all the right buttons to get the most out of guys and I’d guess that was one of the bigger contributing factors.


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  3. #32
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I see the logic in it, it just kinda rubs me the wrong way at this point because it seems like the hyper substitution managing style hasn’t worked out for Bell at all in his tenure.

    I’d say one of the things that made Dusty such a successful manager in his time here was the level he went to minimize disruptions in the lineup on a daily basis. He seemed to know how to push all the right buttons to get the most out of guys and I’d guess that was one of the bigger contributing factors.
    Yes. Dusty didn’t manage this way and he was darn successful. And it’s not as if this pitcher is Nolan Ryan requiring some special lineup.

    I can see both points of view, but hopefully it results in a win, whether it’s the right move or wrong.

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  5. #33
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Is Naquin still swinging a hot bat though? Using these small sample sizes he is 0fer his last 4 with 3ks.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    I would argue the elite pitchers are the ones for whom you don't juggle the lineup. Just go with your A lineup and take your best shot. It's the bad pitchers who have clear Achilles Heels. If the other team is going to serve up a pitcher who turns Tucker Barnhart into Ted Simmons, then accept the gift.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  7. #35
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Our old buddy Johnny Cueto just went 8 2/3 innings today. Picked up a 3-1 win. He is in line to face the Reds on the last game of the Giant series.

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Yes. Dusty didn’t manage this way and he was darn successful.
    People used to be driven crazy by Dusty's resting of certain guys on certain days, and by things like batting Miguel Cairo cleanup in place of Votto.
    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

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  10. #37
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    People used to be driven crazy by Dusty's resting of certain guys on certain days, and by things like batting Miguel Cairo cleanup in place of Votto.
    indeed. I can't tell, am I being gaslit?

    wasn't "SS bats 2nd, dude" a running gag on this very board?
    Last edited by membengal; 04-09-2021 at 08:13 PM.
    Well, that's what those words mean. He was here. If they don't keep him, he will have been lost/subtracted. I headed out the door today with two shoes on my feet. If I don't return with them, I have lost them. If I do return with them, I haven't added them. ---M2

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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    People used to be driven crazy by Dusty's resting of certain guys on certain days, and by things like batting Miguel Cairo cleanup in place of Votto.
    Dusty played a set lineup most of the time, but would have scheduled days off for every player, all based on keeping everyone fresh through a 162 game season. It was quite different from what Bell does, which is constantly change the lineup.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769024

  13. #39
    rest in power, king Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    People used to be driven crazy by Dusty's resting of certain guys on certain days, and by things like batting Miguel Cairo cleanup in place of Votto.
    I’ll cop to being one of those people, but looking at it in hindsight it seemed to be a good approach, Dusty always seemed to be able to get 110% out of his guys. In contrast, for at least 2019 and half of 2020, it seems like Bell’s teams play well below their apparent talent level and frequently seem to play flat or like they’re unprepared. Obviously we can’t know why that’s the case without being in the clubhouse, but if I had to make an educated guess, it seems like the all over the place approach to lineup making could be a culprit.

    At the very least, it hasn’t been a winning approach to handling the team and I wish he’d adjust. Which in fairness, he kind of has for the most part this season.

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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin90 View Post
    Nice to see that we still have a couple of black holes camping out in the 3/4 spots in the lineup. Suarez is batting .111 (.202 last season) and Votto is batting .200 (.221 last season), but they still get the start while a guy like Senzel rides the pine at .356. Put Senzel in Center, Winker at 1st, and bat Suarez in the 8 spot. No reason to have both of these guys at two of the most important spots in the lineup night after night.

    ETA: if Suarez is off the juice or whatever and all he can manage going forward is .200ish with no power, then the least we could do is bring up Garcia who can actually field the position and has potential. Bring on the future.
    You don’t make such drastic moves after a few games. Baseball is based on running a marathon, not a sprint.


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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    You don’t make such drastic moves after a few games. Baseball is based on running a marathon, not a sprint.
    Sometimes I feel like we need a baseball primer. Something to remind people seasons last 162 games and games go nine innings.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Dusty played a set lineup most of the time, but would have scheduled days off for every player, all based on keeping everyone fresh through a 162 game season. It was quite different from what Bell does, which is constantly change the lineup.
    Yeah, sometimes Dusty’s lineup changes were maddening. They didn’t always seem based on good strategy. But to his credit, over the course of the full regular season, he didn’t tinker too much and got good results.

    Bell’s lineup changes are more active and very strategic; but the jury is out on how effective his style can be. Bell also uses set off days BTW.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-09-2021 at 09:40 PM.

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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    You don’t make such drastic moves after a few games. Baseball is based on running a marathon, not a sprint.
    I can get on board with that, but man, it sure looks like Votto is done. He’s 37 years old and he’s fallen off a cliff.

    The last 3 seasons he’s batted .284, .261, and .220 with OPS’ of .837, .768, and .800.

    The 3 seasons prior to that, he batted .314, .326, and .320 with OPS’ of 1.000, .985, and 1.032.

    If you break it down even further, what’s left of his OPS has largely been driven by walks the past 3 years. I see a guy who can’t really HIT the ball anymore and pitchers are going to start challenging him and those walks are going to dry up. I’ve been a huge fan of Votto for the last decade or so, but I’m a Reds’ fan first and this team REALLY needs to find a way to phase out his playing time. Somebody earlier mentioned putting Senzel at 1st...seems like a great idea to me. He’s a natural infielder and it would likely cut down on his injuries.

  21. #44
    Prognosis...Negative StRedlegs900's Avatar
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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    I know I just woke up from a nap, but how long did I sleep? So the Reds are actually 1-5, and I dreamed their 5-1 start? People weren't proclaiming Senzel a walking injury and bust a week ago, and Tyler Naquin isn't the second coming of Babe Ruth now?

    This must be some bizarro world.

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    Re: 4-9-21 Reds vs D-backs 9:40pm

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin90 View Post
    I can get on board with that, but man, it sure looks like Votto is done. He’s 37 years old and he’s fallen off a cliff.

    The last 3 seasons he’s batted .284, .261, and .220 with OPS’ of .837, .768, and .800.

    The 3 seasons prior to that, he batted .314, .326, and .320 with OPS’ of 1.000, .985, and 1.032.

    If you break it down even further, what’s left of his OPS has largely been driven by walks the past 3 years. I see a guy who can’t really HIT the ball anymore and pitchers are going to start challenging him and those walks are going to dry up. I’ve been a huge fan of Votto for the last decade or so, but I’m a Reds’ fan first and this team REALLY needs to find a way to phase out his playing time. Somebody earlier mentioned putting Senzel at 1st...seems like a great idea to me. He’s a natural infielder and it would likely cut down on his injuries.
    His place in the 3 hole is my gripe. Why not drop him till he shows he can produce? If he can't, well, you figured it out. He's had a great career and probably can play 2-3 more years, but at some point you have to recognize father time and the fact some players fade as they age and he sure seems to be moving that way. Drop him lower, rest him some, use as PH. It may extend him to finish his contract.

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