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Thread: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

  1. #61
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    So Romano has pitched 10.2 innings this year. He's given up 3 HR. His last three times out he's allowed runs. Perez had a bad outing in a short stint, but he has better stuff and a better chance to be effective in my opinion. I do agree that Perez could probably do with some time in the minors, but I'd try to hold off sending him down until the games start down there. It's probably not a major disaster if they keep Romano and move Perez down, but Deleon coming to the pen would seem to be ticketed for Romano's long relief job. Perez is a lefty with big stuff and could be used to get a lefty out in a big spot or to turn line-ups around after relieving a RH starter in a game where the opposition stacked the line-up with lefty bats. Romano can't do that. I'd rather have a guy that can help in that scenario and contribute to winning than have two guys (three with Fulmer) whose job is to eat up innings in blowouts. If they don't want to lose Romano, I'd send De Leon down. He has an option, correct? Those two guys are redundant IMO. De Leon has the higher ceiling, so that's who I'd keep, but I can see not wanting to lose Romano I guess, but I don't see losing him as a big deal. I don't see a need for 3 RH long relievers in the bullpen. If they need that many, the season is toast anyway I guess.

    The Reds left themselves short in the pen this year. Anyone who wasn't thinking that every pitcher was going to have their best case outcome could see it. Now we're arguing over which minor leaguer they should keep on the staff. I think they can get a lot of guys to come in and throw ineffective garbage innings during games that are out of hand. . I'd keep the high ceiling lefty for now, but they need to be looking for some one from outside the organization. Ideally, the Reds would trade from their OF depth and pick-up a real big league reliever.

    If they find someone better by all means move him out. It would help if they had started the minor league season already to see what’s down there.

    He’s given up runs in games with the exception of the last SF game that they already had big leads on. Do you remember the times when with 5-7 run leads they would put in their bottom 2 relievers and they would implode forcing the closer in?
    Romano eats up garbage innings which you need if your winning or losing big. Instead of using some of your best relievers to close out every game. He’s just a middling reliever amid a ton of them. And Cam should be looking at himself if he doesn’t improve instead of Romano.

    It’s not the end of the season if they do DFA him but until you see what’s in the minors how about waiting for the hopeful depth to present itself.

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  4. #62
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Not too concerned with the rotation right now....Reds need better relievers not names Sims and Antone, and to an extent Garrett (he'll be ok once he gets past his ego)

    Relievers not named Sims or Antone have gone 20 straight innings with at least a hit or walk....most of them multiple incidents.

    A boring, hitless inning. That's all I'm looking for once in a while.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

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  6. #63
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    The Reds have got nothing out of their top 2 starters so far and have a mid-pack team ERA. Yet you are acting like this is the 2017 Reds pitching staff and the season is in the trash can. When they finish in the bottom quarter of staff ERA, really?

    Like I said, enjoy some baseball.
    "Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends?"
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  7. #64
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    If they find someone better by all means move him out. It would help if they had started the minor league season already to see what’s down there.

    He’s given up runs in games with the exception of the last SF game that they already had big leads on. Do you remember the times when with 5-7 run leads they would put in their bottom 2 relievers and they would implode forcing the closer in?
    Romano eats up garbage innings which you need if your winning or losing big. Instead of using some of your best relievers to close out every game. He’s just a middling reliever amid a ton of them. And Cam should be looking at himself if he doesn’t improve instead of Romano.

    It’s not the end of the season if they do DFA him but until you see what’s in the minors how about waiting for the hopeful depth to present itself.
    But isn't De Leon going to be eating those garbage innings now that Gray has taken his rotation spot? They also have Fulmer. I guess I'm saying they have found somebody better to do that job - De Leon is better to do it. Eating those garbage innings from the RH side isn't Perez job. Perez is a match up lefty with strikeout stuff when the situation calls for it or a LH reliever to come in early in the game to face a line-up stacked with lefty bats. That's probably the job that Garrett should be in. It's how he's earned his stripes up to now, but the Reds decided to cut loose the late inning guys, so Garrett is doing that job now and the team needs the lefty. They don't need all three of Fulmer, Romano and Deleon. If De Leon is staying, then Romano should be the one to go.
    Last edited by mth123; 04-16-2021 at 02:46 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Griffey012 (04-16-2021)

  9. #65
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    mth is correct. Leave Cionel with the big league club and give him some lower leverage innings to get his legs back. He has a lot more upside than Sal. And JDL can take on Sal’s role.

    Man they really need another “bridge” guy. Hopefully Fulmer can become that, a sort of poor/man’s Antone.

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  11. #66
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    mth is correct. Leave Cionel with the big league club and give him some lower leverage innings to get his legs back. He has a lot more upside than Sal. And JDL can take on Sal’s role.

    Man they really need another “bridge” guy. Hopefully Fulmer can become that, a sort of poor/man’s Antone.
    They desperately need another bridge guy. Maybe two. I hoped it would be Lorenzen, but that isn't happening.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  12. #67
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    But isn't De Leon going to be eating those garbage innings now that Gray has taken his rotation spot? They also have Fulmer. I guess I'm saying they have found somebody better to do that job - De Leon is better to do it. Eating those garbage innings from the RH side isn't Perez job. Perez is a match up lefty with strikeout stuff when the situation calls for it or a LH reliever to come in early in the game to face a line-up stacked with lefty bats. That's probably the job that Garrett should be in. It's how he's earned his stripes up to now, but the Reds decided to cut loose the late inning guys, so Garrett is doing that job now and the team needs the lefty. They don't need all three of Fulmer, Romano and Deleon. If De Leon is staying, then Romano should be the one to go.
    I do wonder if Fulmer might pitch himself into a bigger role, early returns are good, but his track record isn't.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  14. #68
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    But isn't De Leon going to be eating those garbage innings now that Gray has taken his rotation spot?
    I don’t think so. Nor do I think they can afford to have Perez pitching “low leverage” MLB innings. And I expect Fulmer and Bedrosian to be pitching more meaningful innings if they stay. Can’t have 5 inning starts and only 4 pitchers you trust to cover everything beyond that.

    Guessing Romano will stay and be the main mop up guy. He has been so far. He has the most innings of any Reds reliever. He’s tied for the most appearances. He’s out of options, no reason to DFA him right now.

    Reds don’t have enough good pitchers so we debate how to handle low leverage and mop up.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-16-2021 at 03:46 PM.

  15. #69
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    I don't think it is worth losing someone who may help in the pen just so we can wait for Romano to inevitably turn into a pumpkin. Nothing says he has changed, he isn't striking anyone out, he is giving up HRs, he is giving up hard hits and getting by on a .133 BABIP. His xERA is is near 6, his FIP 6.70.

    Sal is easily the first cut for me.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 04-16-2021 at 03:56 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  17. #70
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    I don't think it is worth losing someone with who may help in the pen just so we can wait for Romano to inevitably turn into a pumpkin. Nothing says he has changed, he isn't striking anyone out, he is giving up HRs, he is giving up hard hits and getting by on a .133 BABIP. His xERA is is near 6, his FIP 6.70.

    Sal is easily the first cut for me.
    But you’re not “losing” anyone if you demote a guy with minor league options. You can bring him back. That’s why Krall said this winter he wanted to emphasize relievers with options.

    And while Romano may turn into a pumpkin, some others are pumpkins now. They need to unpumpkin, preferably before Halloween.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-16-2021 at 04:06 PM.

  18. #71
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    I don't think it is worth losing someone who may help in the pen just so we can wait for Romano to inevitably turn into a pumpkin. Nothing says he has changed, he isn't striking anyone out, he is giving up HRs, he is giving up hard hits and getting by on a .133 BABIP. His xERA is is near 6, his FIP 6.70.

    Sal is easily the first cut for me.
    Yeah I’m not sure I’m seeing the logic here. His biggest upside is that he doesn’t immediately give up 5 runs when he comes in? That’s a pretty damn low bar, any jabroni can do that, and probably have a better than 4.22 K/9 and without constantly giving up HRs with a FIP/xFIP near or over 6. He’s hot garbage.

  19. #72
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    But you’re not “losing” anyone if you demote a guy with minor league options. You can bring him back. That’s why Krall said this winter he wanted to emphasize relievers with options.

    And while Romano may turn into a pumpkin, some others are pumpkins now. They need to unpumpkin, preferably in a developmental setting. Hopefully before Halloween.
    That's correct, you aren't losing an optioned guy. I'm just saying Romano is my first guy DFA'd when that time comes, whether it be for a pitcher or hitter coming back, because he is pretty much still a pumpkin, just a lucky one for now. I'm certainly going to give guys like Fulmer, Bedrosian, and Hoffman more rope than Sal. No concerns if the staff decides to demote Cionel for now if he continues to struggle finding the zone. I'd rather just have DeLeon stay and take the innings though.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 04-16-2021 at 04:16 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  20. #73
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I don’t think so. Nor do I think they can afford to have Perez pitching “low leverage” MLB innings. And I expect Fulmer and Bedrosian to be pitching more meaningful innings if they stay. Can’t have 5 inning starts and only 4 pitchers you trust to cover everything beyond that.

    Guessing Romano will stay and be the main mop up guy. He has been so far. He has the most innings of any Reds reliever. He’s tied for the most appearances. He’s out of options, no reason to DFA him right now.

    Reds don’t have enough good pitchers so we debate how to handle low leverage and mop up.
    Whether they send Romano, Perez or Deleon down, it doesn't increase the number of guys they trust. That's the real problem. I guess I trust Perez more against a lefty with men on base than any of the non Antone, Sims or Garrett guys, so I keep him for that situation and let Deleon or Romano be an innings eater. Hopefully Bedrosian, Doolittle or Fulmer step up, but they need somebody from outside, probably two guys. Then all three minor leaguers - Romano, Deleon and Perez will be in the minors where they belong. .
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  21. #74
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    That's correct, you aren't losing an optioned guy. I'm just saying Romano is my first guy DFA'd when that time comes, whether it be for a pitcher or hitter coming back, because he is pretty much still a pumpkin, just a lucky one for now. I'm certainly going to give guys like Fulmer, Bedrosian, and Hoffman more rope than Sal. No concerns if the staff decides to demote Cionel for now if he continues to struggle finding the zone. I'd rather just have DeLeon stay and take the innings though.
    No disagreement that, when necessary, Sal will depart and it’s appropriate.

    Just don’t think they need to do it yet, the pen now is thin, and he’s doing valuable service eating innings without much rest. Not every pitcher can do that. Hopefully at some point “mop up” will be of less concern.

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  23. #75
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    Re: Lorenzen to 60 day IL per Sheldon

    His name is Cam Bedrosian. His name is Cam Bedrosian. If he doesn’t start pitching better.


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