Is Antone the Best Pitcher On the Staff?

[Kc61]

Reds rotation, if it remains healthy, is in good shape and better than the pen. I don’t think Reds will widen that gap by moving Antone to the rotation. Weakens the pen too much. If there’s a long injury to a starter, I believe Reds would then seriously consider such a move.

[mth123]

Antone looks great and eventually they need to try him in the rotation, but going through a line-up three times is different than pitching relief. Pacing yourself and fooling guys multiple times in the same game is completely different. He can't be considered their best pitcher until he shows he can do that. Right now, the bullpen would implode without him IMO. I'd leave him alone and enjoy the success.

[RedTeamGo!]

Antone looks great and eventually they need to try him in the rotation, but going through a line-up three times is different than pitching relief. Pacing yourself and fooling guys multiple times in the same game is completely different. He can't be considered their best pitcher until he shows he can do that. Right now, the bullpen would implode without him IMO. I'd leave him alone and enjoy the success.

You’re talking results. I’m talking stuff. I think he has the best stuff on the staff and he seems to know how to use it. He reminds me of Trevor Bauer but he throws harder. I feel like if he were in any other organization he’d be a TOR starter already. Don’t get why reds are so afraid to start him.

[mth123]

You’re talking results. I’m talking stuff. I think he has the best stuff on the staff and he seems to know how to use it. He reminds me of Trevor Bauer but he throws harder. I feel like if he were in any other organization he’d be a TOR starter already. Don’t get why reds are so afraid to start him.

I don't think they are afraid. He was hit hard in two starts last year, but mostly, they planned their team around going cheap in the pen and need him to take up the effective innings they gave away that Iglesias and Bradley could have pitched.

I think (hope at this point) that he'd upgrade the rotation, but the loss to the pen may be a bigger negative than the incremental upgrade to the rotation would be a positive. He impacts more games in a positive way as a reliever. He could go out there and throw six great innings as a starter only to have the pen lose the game because he's not there. Other guys are throwing effective innings as starters and because Antone is in the pen, they actually win those games.

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't think they are afraid. He was hit hard in two starts last year, but mostly, they planned their team around going cheap in the pen and need him to take up the effective innings they gave away that Iglesias and Bradley could have pitched.

I think (hope at this point) that he'd upgrade the rotation, but the loss to the pen may be a bigger negative than the incremental upgrade to the rotation would be a positive. He impacts more games in a positive way as a reliever. He could go out there and throw six great innings as a starter only to have the pen lose the game because he's not there. Other guys are throwing effective innings as starters and because Antone is in the pen, they actually win those games.

When was he hit hard last year? Most runs he gave up in appearance was 2.

[Kc61]

Afraid?

Reds aren’t afraid of the rotation with Antone.

They’re afraid of the bullpen without him.

[mth123]

Afraid?

Reds aren’t afraid of the rotation with Antone.

They’re afraid of the bullpen without him.

Exactly. They gave away their other relievers with the plan to turn it over to the cheap guys Antone and Sims being at the center of it. Unless. and until. two or three of the retreads fill the void, the pen and, as a result the team, would implode without Antone in the pen IMO.

[Wonderful Monds]

I mean they’ve been doing okay considering Antone has only pitched in 3 games so far. He’s basically pitching as often, or even less often, than he would if he were a starter. So it’s not like they getting so many more frequent appearances out of him or something like that.

I feel like people are way overthinking this. Starters are always far more valuable than bullpen guys, period. I think the only real question about it is, do you think Antone can translate his stuff to being an effective starter? If the answer is yes, he should be in the rotation ASAP. You can find and trade for relievers if you need them. You can call up prospects as reinforcements if necessary. You don’t leave a guy with TOR stuff in the pen just because you cheaped on picking up any legit relief pitchers.

[mth123]

When was he hit hard last year? Most runs he gave up in appearance was 2.

Specifically, he started on August 5 and walked 4 in 4 and a third. He started on August 29th and gave up 2 HR and 3 ER in 4 innings, he had a good start on September 6 where he went 5 with 6 Ks and only 1 earned run, then followed it with a poor start on September 12 where he went 3 innings walked three and gave up 4 hits and HR.

It's really a small sample to make any conclusions, but his entire track record of being a stud is in relief. Antone in the rotation would be another experiment on a team with too many of those already. I think it's an experiment that needs to happen at some point, but I don't know if this season is the right time. He's a somewhat known quantity in the pen (but the sample is small there as well IMO) and the Reds need stuff they can rely on when trying to contend. Moving him to the rotation would just create two more question marks, including Antone as a starter and how to replace his relief innings.

[mth123]

I mean they’ve been doing okay considering Antone has only pitched in 3 games so far. He’s basically pitching as often, or even less often, than he would if he were a starter. So it’s not like they getting so many more frequent appearances out of him or something like that.

I feel like people are way overthinking this. Starters are always far more valuable than bullpen guys, period. I think the only real question about it is, do you think Antone can translate his stuff to being an effective starter? If the answer is yes, he should be in the rotation ASAP. You can find and trade for relievers if you need them. You can call up prospects as reinforcements if necessary. You don’t leave a guy with TOR stuff in the pen just because you cheaped on picking up any legit relief pitchers.

I hear what your saying and agree with the general point, but the Reds haven't really found any relievers or traded for any.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Exactly. They gave away their other relievers with the plan to turn it over to the cheap guys Antone and Sims being at the center of it. Unless. and until. two or three of the retreads fill the void, the pen and, as a result the team, would implode without Antone in the pen IMO.

Not sure how great it would have been with the guys they gave away either. Bradley has an ERA of 6, his FB velocity is down another MPH and is currently injured. Iglesias has an ERA of 6.75 and looks like he continues to struggle with the "non-save" situation appearances. The rest of your point is noted although I would say Doolittle has filled, at least, a middle relief slot nicely

[Mitri]

RZ needs to learn the phrases "don't mess with a good thing" and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Antone has many years under Reds control to become a starter. Hell, injury might push him into the role this season. But for now, he's the only shut-down guy in the bullpen, he can go multiple innings, and the rotation has settled in rather nicely. Reds could very well flip the roles of Hoffman/Antone; I think I'd rather they just use Antone a bit more frequently. Keep him on pace for 110-120 higher leverage innings, and that just about equals 130-140 lower leverage, and potentially less productive, innings.

Same goes for De Leon. He has one good inning and then suddenly people want to mold him into a multi-inning workhorse. With JDL, the biggest obstacle is that mental hurdle of "how am I going to dominate for multiple innings". Maybe he's a 3-out, max effort type? I would keep him in that role and try Fulmer in Antone #2 role.

[HammerTime]

We are way over thinking this. I’ve seen some say he can be as good as Sonny Gray. So you can add another Sonny Gray to the rotation. Do you do it or not? Figure out the bullpen along the way.

[mth123]

Not sure how great it would have been with the guys they gave away either. Bradley has an ERA of 6, his FB velocity is down another MPH and is currently injured. Iglesias has an ERA of 6.75 and looks like he continues to struggle with the "non-save" situation appearances. The rest of your point is noted although I would say Doolittle has filled, at least, a middle relief slot nicely

But if they still had Iglesias, he'd be the closer and the non-save thing would be a non issue. Garrett could go back to being a match-up lefty which is why his stats are as good as they are and Sims could be the main set-up guy. It would absolutey make a difference. The team not only lost Iglesias and Bradley but they converted Garrett from a strength to a question mark by making those deals. Amir Garrett is yet another guy playing out of position on this team. He's not a closer. He a situational reliever who is really good at certain situations, but those aren't the situations he's used in now Simply making Sims the closer and using Garrett the way he's always been used would settle things a lot IMO. Right now, Antone is needed to replace Sims (who would be replacing Iglesias) and Lorenzen's innings. If Deleon, Fulmer, Perez or Doolittle step up ( I have no hope for Romano), I might see a path to taking Antone out of the pen. Right now, he's the only "strength" they have out there.

[Wonderful Monds]

We are way over thinking this. I’ve seen some say he can be as good as Sonny Gray. So you can add another Sonny Gray to the rotation. Do you do it or not? Figure out the bullpen along the way.

And part of that is, if you get more innings out of Antone, that’s fewer innings you have to count on the crappier bullpen pitchers for. That means that you can wait an inning longer to bring in Sims if necessary because he’s not needed to come
in to put out a fire in the 8th. Stuff like that.