Suarez and Homerunitis...

[Hamilton95]

I want my best hitters to get the most ABs. Winker and Cast are the best hitters

I would like to see more men on base with Cast and Winker batting that is all. More then anything just get Saurez out of clean up.

[Mitri]

I don't think Suarez at SS is ideal, but the fact is the Reds simply don't have a better alternative. Even in a horrible slump, he's probably already provided more offense than any of the alternatives would provide all year long and while we long for the back-ups (just like the back-up quarterbacks are always a better idea until you actually see them play), I think Blandino would have similar defensive stats and while Farmer might be a slight improvement, he's a black hole that doesn't present the threat that Suarez does even in a slump. Garcia is an important part of the future. I don't hand him a job until he takes it. The reds have ruined a lot of guys by rushing them IMO. Garcia got his taste of the big leagues and showed he wasn't ready. Now, he needs to go down and show he can reach a higher level by being a dominate player in the minors first.

Also, Jonathon India has been the best defensive 2B they've had in a while (maybe Peraza was decent defensively out there or maybe we have to go all the way back to Brandon Phillips) and moving Moose back to 2B would be a significant defensive hit at two positions negating a lot of the defensive gains you'd get by moving Suarez off of SS.

Finally, these defensive stats mean nothing on April 24. At least one of Suarez errors is on Votto IMO and I think he'll still improve.

I agree with this. What's done is done, Suarez at SS is sticking for 2021 no matter what Geno keeps doing. I think it clearly upgraded 3B and 2B defense, and the potential offensive upgrade is still there if Suarez can make the adjustments.

The real question is: what happens in 2022? It probably won't be Suarez at SS again - maybe Garcia - so then they'll have to find a spot for Suarez to play. The DH should make it easier. Maybe Geno and Joey do a DH/1B split, and the OF sorts itself out.

But for now this "experiment" is permanent, and it doesn't really have much to do about Suarez at all, but more about giving Garcia time, India a spot, and moving Moose to a play where he can fully contribute.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I’ve shown that -20 DRS at SS over a full season is workable for many teams. Going beyond that is where the trouble occurs.

I’m sorry, but there is a Grand Canyon between -20 DRS and -60 DRS. It’s like the difference between a .600 OPS and a .200 OPS. .600 OPS is bad for a MLB started, but many competitive teams have had guys with .600 OPS. It’s absurd to think any competitive team could have a starter with a .200 OPS. Similarly, it’s absurd to think that a team could be competitive with a SS with a -60 DRS.

Wait, 1 post ago -20 DRS was a death sentence for a competitive team, now it's "workable"? To be clear -3 would be a "pace" of over -20 (in the -21 to -25 range)

There is a Grand Canyon between -20 and -60 but -60 just will not happen so it's an argument in bad faith to start from that position. Even your "pace" is exaggerated. -6 after 19 games would put him somewhere in the -47 to -50 range. Are you comfortable projecting Gregorius at -60? Bogaerts and Lopez each at -30? Seager and Urias each in the mid-20s? I'm not. Castellanos and 3 others are on pace for around 60 HR but it's highly unlikely that anyone will hit 60, let alone 4. Bogaerts, who is not a good defender (in fact, he has had negative DRS each year of his career), hasn't put up -60 over the last 8 years COMBINED. Derek Jeter was a notoriously awful defender by the metrics and never even hit -30 in a season

[MoneyInTheBank]

I would like to see more men on base with Cast and Winker batting that is all. More then anything just get Saurez out of clean up.

I'd rather the pitcher hit 8th and have India 9th than mess with the top. Just a difference in philosophy

[757690]

Wait, 1 post ago -20 DRS was a death sentence for a competitive team, now it's "workable"? To be clear -3 would be a "pace" of over -20 (in the -21 to -25 range)

There is a Grand Canyon between -20 and -60 but -60 just will not happen so it's an argument in bad faith to start from that position. Even your "pace" is exaggerated. -6 after 19 games would put him somewhere in the -47 to -50 range. Are you comfortable projecting Gregorius at -60? Bogaerts and Lopez each at -30? Seager and Urias each in the mid-20s? I'm not. Castellanos and 3 others are on pace for around 60 HR but it's highly unlikely that anyone will hit 60, let alone 4. Bogaerts, who is not a good defender (in fact, he has had negative DRS each year of his career), hasn't put up -60 over the last 8 years COMBINED. Derek Jeter was a notoriously awful defender by the metrics and never even hit -30 in a season

Watching Suarez, I am can easily see him reach -50 DRS or worse. He has limited range and continues to botch some of the most basic plays.

I haven’t watched any of the others at length, so I can’t comment on them.

More importantly, I am watching Suarez’s poor defense leading directly to losses, and history tells us they are indirectly leading to more losses.

[M2]

So, Geno is hanging out with Johnny Unitas' great grandson Homer?

[Kc61]

I hope the Reds’ plan for the near future is Garcia at short and India at second.

If you can’t have a good defensive team generally, at least cement defense up the middle.

Garcia and India would cover middle infield nicely, hopefully they can hit enough. Make trades if necessary to accommodate this.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Watching Suarez, I am can easily see him reach -50 DRS or worse. He has limited range and continues to botch some of the most basic plays.

I haven’t watched any of the others at length, so I can’t comment on them.

More importantly, I am watching Suarez’s poor defense leading directly to losses, and history tells us they are indirectly leading to more losses.

No offense but, if you're not watching a large swath of players at length, I'm not sure how you can spot a -50 DRS with the naked eye. Especially when nobody has even achieved -40 and you have to go back 15 years to find a -30.

Isn't it enough to say his defense has been bad rather than make a quasi-stats argument 2x as bad as anyone the last 20 years?

[757690]

No offense but, if you're not watching a large swath of players at length, I'm not sure how you can spot a -50 DRS with the naked eye. Especially when nobody has even achieved -40 and you have to go back 15 years to find a -30.

Isn't it enough to say his defense has been bad rather than make a quasi-stats argument 2x as bad as anyone the last 20 years?

Dude, I’ve been watching baseball for decades. I’ve watched enough to know what an historically bad SS looks like.

Going into the season, many here suggested that Suarez would be historically bad at defense at SS because he was horrible the last time he played, and now he’s 5 years older and hadn’t had any work there until this spring training.

Now both the eye test and the numbers are backing that up.

So it’s not illogical to say that he could be historically bad at SS if he plays there the whole season.

[Hamilton95]

Dude, I’ve been watching baseball for decades. I’ve watched enough to know what an historically bad SS looks like.

Going into the season, many here suggested that Suarez would be historically bad at defense at SS because he was horrible the last time he played, and now he’s 5 years older and hadn’t had any work there until this spring training.

Now both the eye test and the numbers are backing that up.

So it’s not illogical to say that he could be historically bad at SS if he plays there the whole season.

Saurez in on pace for 43 errors and 281 strikeouts.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Dude, I’ve been watching baseball for decades. I’ve watched enough to know what an historically bad SS looks like.

Going into the season, many here suggested that Suarez would be historically bad at defense at SS because he was horrible the last time he played, and now he’s 5 years older and hadn’t had any work there until this spring training.

Now both the eye test and the numbers are backing that up.

So it’s not illogical to say that he could be historically bad at SS if he plays there the whole season.

RELAX. I'm not questioning your ability to evaluate players. I have no problem with what you've said above.

I have a problem with trying to use absurd "on pace" stats to suggest he will be nearly twice as bad as any season ever recorded. Especially when there are players actively equal to or worse than him in those same stats. It's no less absurd than a player hitting 3 HRs on opening day and saying "he's on pace for 486 HRs!"

[757690]

RELAX. I'm not questioning your ability to evaluate players. I have no problem with what you've said above.

I have a problem with trying to use absurd "on pace" stats to suggest he will be nearly twice as bad as any season ever recorded. Especially when there are players actively equal to or worse than him in those same stats. It's no less absurd than a player hitting 3 HRs on opening day and saying "he's on pace for 486 HRs!"

Again, the difference is that there was never any expectation for these other players to play that badly. There was for Suarez.

The argument before the season was that Suarez would be historically bad defensively at SS. We now have stats (and the eye test) that show that he is on pace to be historically bad defensively at SS. So it’s not absurd at all to say that he is on pace for what was expected.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Again, the difference is that there was never any expectation for these other players to play that badly. There was for Suarez.

The argument before the season was that Suarez would be historically bad defensively at SS. We now have stats (and the eye test) that show that he is on pace to be historically bad defensively at SS. So it’s not absurd at all to say that he is on pace for what was expected.

You're not hearing me. If you want to proclaim he's going to be historically bad? Be my guest. Using pseudo-stats? I'm going to push back. That's it

[757690]

You're not hearing me. If you want to proclaim he's going to be historically bad? Be my guest. Using pseudo-stats? I'm going to push back. That's it

I am using actual stats. Those misplays actually happened. Nothing pseudo about them.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I am using actual stats. Those misplays actually happened. Nothing pseudo about them.

...other than using "pace" stats after 19 games, sure, they're real.