Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 77

Thread: Suarez and Homerunitis...

  1. #61
    Member Hamilton95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    116

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I want my best hitters to get the most ABs. Winker and Cast are the best hitters
    I would like to see more men on base with Cast and Winker batting that is all. More then anything just get Saurez out of clean up.

  2. Likes:

    GAC (04-26-2021)


  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #62
    Member Mitri's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,943

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't think Suarez at SS is ideal, but the fact is the Reds simply don't have a better alternative. Even in a horrible slump, he's probably already provided more offense than any of the alternatives would provide all year long and while we long for the back-ups (just like the back-up quarterbacks are always a better idea until you actually see them play), I think Blandino would have similar defensive stats and while Farmer might be a slight improvement, he's a black hole that doesn't present the threat that Suarez does even in a slump. Garcia is an important part of the future. I don't hand him a job until he takes it. The reds have ruined a lot of guys by rushing them IMO. Garcia got his taste of the big leagues and showed he wasn't ready. Now, he needs to go down and show he can reach a higher level by being a dominate player in the minors first.

    Also, Jonathon India has been the best defensive 2B they've had in a while (maybe Peraza was decent defensively out there or maybe we have to go all the way back to Brandon Phillips) and moving Moose back to 2B would be a significant defensive hit at two positions negating a lot of the defensive gains you'd get by moving Suarez off of SS.

    Finally, these defensive stats mean nothing on April 24. At least one of Suarez errors is on Votto IMO and I think he'll still improve.
    I agree with this. What's done is done, Suarez at SS is sticking for 2021 no matter what Geno keeps doing. I think it clearly upgraded 3B and 2B defense, and the potential offensive upgrade is still there if Suarez can make the adjustments.

    The real question is: what happens in 2022? It probably won't be Suarez at SS again - maybe Garcia - so then they'll have to find a spot for Suarez to play. The DH should make it easier. Maybe Geno and Joey do a DH/1B split, and the OF sorts itself out.

    But for now this "experiment" is permanent, and it doesn't really have much to do about Suarez at all, but more about giving Garcia time, India a spot, and moving Moose to a play where he can fully contribute.

  5. Likes:

    mth123 (04-25-2021)

  6. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,337

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Iíve shown that -20 DRS at SS over a full season is workable for many teams. Going beyond that is where the trouble occurs.

    Iím sorry, but there is a Grand Canyon between -20 DRS and -60 DRS. Itís like the difference between a .600 OPS and a .200 OPS. .600 OPS is bad for a MLB started, but many competitive teams have had guys with .600 OPS. Itís absurd to think any competitive team could have a starter with a .200 OPS. Similarly, itís absurd to think that a team could be competitive with a SS with a -60 DRS.
    Wait, 1 post ago -20 DRS was a death sentence for a competitive team, now it's "workable"? To be clear -3 would be a "pace" of over -20 (in the -21 to -25 range)

    There is a Grand Canyon between -20 and -60 but -60 just will not happen so it's an argument in bad faith to start from that position. Even your "pace" is exaggerated. -6 after 19 games would put him somewhere in the -47 to -50 range. Are you comfortable projecting Gregorius at -60? Bogaerts and Lopez each at -30? Seager and Urias each in the mid-20s? I'm not. Castellanos and 3 others are on pace for around 60 HR but it's highly unlikely that anyone will hit 60, let alone 4. Bogaerts, who is not a good defender (in fact, he has had negative DRS each year of his career), hasn't put up -60 over the last 8 years COMBINED. Derek Jeter was a notoriously awful defender by the metrics and never even hit -30 in a season

  7. #64
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,337

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton95 View Post
    I would like to see more men on base with Cast and Winker batting that is all. More then anything just get Saurez out of clean up.
    I'd rather the pitcher hit 8th and have India 9th than mess with the top. Just a difference in philosophy

  8. #65
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    26,967

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Wait, 1 post ago -20 DRS was a death sentence for a competitive team, now it's "workable"? To be clear -3 would be a "pace" of over -20 (in the -21 to -25 range)

    There is a Grand Canyon between -20 and -60 but -60 just will not happen so it's an argument in bad faith to start from that position. Even your "pace" is exaggerated. -6 after 19 games would put him somewhere in the -47 to -50 range. Are you comfortable projecting Gregorius at -60? Bogaerts and Lopez each at -30? Seager and Urias each in the mid-20s? I'm not. Castellanos and 3 others are on pace for around 60 HR but it's highly unlikely that anyone will hit 60, let alone 4. Bogaerts, who is not a good defender (in fact, he has had negative DRS each year of his career), hasn't put up -60 over the last 8 years COMBINED. Derek Jeter was a notoriously awful defender by the metrics and never even hit -30 in a season
    Watching Suarez, I am can easily see him reach -50 DRS or worse. He has limited range and continues to botch some of the most basic plays.

    I haven’t watched any of the others at length, so I can’t comment on them.

    More importantly, I am watching Suarez’s poor defense leading directly to losses, and history tells us they are indirectly leading to more losses.
    Thatís why weíre playing, bro

  9. #66
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    40,780

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    So, Geno is hanging out with Johnny Unitas' great grandson Homer?
    The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
    In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there

  10. Likes:

    Kc61 (04-25-2021),Old school 1983 (04-25-2021)

  11. #67
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    30,175

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    I hope the Reds’ plan for the near future is Garcia at short and India at second.

    If you can’t have a good defensive team generally, at least cement defense up the middle.

    Garcia and India would cover middle infield nicely, hopefully they can hit enough. Make trades if necessary to accommodate this.

  12. Likes:

    757690 (04-25-2021)

  13. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,337

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Watching Suarez, I am can easily see him reach -50 DRS or worse. He has limited range and continues to botch some of the most basic plays.

    I haven’t watched any of the others at length, so I can’t comment on them.

    More importantly, I am watching Suarez’s poor defense leading directly to losses, and history tells us they are indirectly leading to more losses.
    No offense but, if you're not watching a large swath of players at length, I'm not sure how you can spot a -50 DRS with the naked eye. Especially when nobody has even achieved -40 and you have to go back 15 years to find a -30.

    Isn't it enough to say his defense has been bad rather than make a quasi-stats argument 2x as bad as anyone the last 20 years?

  14. #69
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    26,967

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    No offense but, if you're not watching a large swath of players at length, I'm not sure how you can spot a -50 DRS with the naked eye. Especially when nobody has even achieved -40 and you have to go back 15 years to find a -30.

    Isn't it enough to say his defense has been bad rather than make a quasi-stats argument 2x as bad as anyone the last 20 years?
    Dude, I’ve been watching baseball for decades. I’ve watched enough to know what an historically bad SS looks like.

    Going into the season, many here suggested that Suarez would be historically bad at defense at SS because he was horrible the last time he played, and now he’s 5 years older and hadn’t had any work there until this spring training.

    Now both the eye test and the numbers are backing that up.

    So it’s not illogical to say that he could be historically bad at SS if he plays there the whole season.
    Thatís why weíre playing, bro

  15. #70
    Member Hamilton95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    116

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Dude, I’ve been watching baseball for decades. I’ve watched enough to know what an historically bad SS looks like.

    Going into the season, many here suggested that Suarez would be historically bad at defense at SS because he was horrible the last time he played, and now he’s 5 years older and hadn’t had any work there until this spring training.

    Now both the eye test and the numbers are backing that up.

    So it’s not illogical to say that he could be historically bad at SS if he plays there the whole season.
    Saurez in on pace for 43 errors and 281 strikeouts.

  16. #71
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,337

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Dude, I’ve been watching baseball for decades. I’ve watched enough to know what an historically bad SS looks like.

    Going into the season, many here suggested that Suarez would be historically bad at defense at SS because he was horrible the last time he played, and now he’s 5 years older and hadn’t had any work there until this spring training.

    Now both the eye test and the numbers are backing that up.

    So it’s not illogical to say that he could be historically bad at SS if he plays there the whole season.
    RELAX. I'm not questioning your ability to evaluate players. I have no problem with what you've said above.

    I have a problem with trying to use absurd "on pace" stats to suggest he will be nearly twice as bad as any season ever recorded. Especially when there are players actively equal to or worse than him in those same stats. It's no less absurd than a player hitting 3 HRs on opening day and saying "he's on pace for 486 HRs!"

  17. Likes:

    GAC (04-26-2021),mth123 (04-25-2021),Ron Madden (04-25-2021)

  18. #72
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    26,967

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    RELAX. I'm not questioning your ability to evaluate players. I have no problem with what you've said above.

    I have a problem with trying to use absurd "on pace" stats to suggest he will be nearly twice as bad as any season ever recorded. Especially when there are players actively equal to or worse than him in those same stats. It's no less absurd than a player hitting 3 HRs on opening day and saying "he's on pace for 486 HRs!"
    Again, the difference is that there was never any expectation for these other players to play that badly. There was for Suarez.

    The argument before the season was that Suarez would be historically bad defensively at SS. We now have stats (and the eye test) that show that he is on pace to be historically bad defensively at SS. So it’s not absurd at all to say that he is on pace for what was expected.
    Thatís why weíre playing, bro

  19. #73
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,337

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Again, the difference is that there was never any expectation for these other players to play that badly. There was for Suarez.

    The argument before the season was that Suarez would be historically bad defensively at SS. We now have stats (and the eye test) that show that he is on pace to be historically bad defensively at SS. So it’s not absurd at all to say that he is on pace for what was expected.
    You're not hearing me. If you want to proclaim he's going to be historically bad? Be my guest. Using pseudo-stats? I'm going to push back. That's it

  20. #74
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    26,967

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    You're not hearing me. If you want to proclaim he's going to be historically bad? Be my guest. Using pseudo-stats? I'm going to push back. That's it
    I am using actual stats. Those misplays actually happened. Nothing pseudo about them.
    Thatís why weíre playing, bro

  21. #75
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,337

    Re: Suarez and Homerunitis...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I am using actual stats. Those misplays actually happened. Nothing pseudo about them.
    ...other than using "pace" stats after 19 games, sure, they're real.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | Kinsm | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator