The bullpen

[Kc61]

Sims was in the pen from the start but pitched well all season. Their other main cogs from 2019, Lorenzen, Iglesias, and Stephenson were pretty terrible to start last year. Lorenzen and Iglesias snapped out of it. They also improved the talent by replacing Jones, Strop, and Raley. But even Raley went on to pitch well for Houston after starting out awful for the Reds.

Just seems like whatever they are doing to prepare for the start of the season isn’t working.

And agree it’s time to shuffle some chairs.

This is all simply a matter of having MLB-capable talent in the bullpen.

During the 2020 season, Sims’ role was expanded, Antone was added, Bradley was added. The talent base was expanded. Weaker guys, like Strop, were dropped.

Iglesias was on track by appearance #3 - an unexpected talent boost since his 2019 was poor.

As the talent got better and the right guys were used, the pen did better. The same can happen in 2021 if Reds make moves to improve pen talent level.

[M2]

To put this in another perspective, the Reds SP gave up 2 ER this series, the lineup scored 20 runs, and they ended up getting swept anyway.

That's the painful part. It's also the part where there's a glimmer of hope. If the bullpen can just improve to shoddy they're looking at a sweep in the other direction.

[Old school 1983]

If the Reds want a pen piece, find a taker for Tucker Barnhart. Plays solid D. Is hitting well above his talent level. Last year of a contract and they have a very capable high draft pick prospect ready to start.

[zigbeenuthouse]

If the Reds want a pen piece, find a taker for Tucker Barnhart. Plays solid D. Is hitting well above his talent level. Last year of a contract and they have a very capable high draft pick prospect ready to start.

Yes, agree. Reds MAY find a pitcher but with Barnhart only one year on contract that would make it tougher.

Reds problem with all this is not the money, it's drafting and development and key trades to find the right pitchers for the pen. You can throw out all the averages on money spent on pens and not spent and blah, blah about average money spent on bullpens. Means jack zero. Draft, develop, trade...and the front office has failed. They also hired a nonstarter in Bell. He has no clue as to how to use a bullpen.

[Griffey012]

This is all simply a matter of having MLB-capable talent in the bullpen.

During the 2020 season, Sims’ role was expanded, Antone was added, Bradley was added. The talent base was expanded. Weaker guys, like Strop, were dropped.

Iglesias was on track by appearance #3 - an unexpected talent boost since his 2019 was poor.

As the talent got better, the pen did better. The same can happen in 2021 if Reds make moves to improve pen talent level.

Everyone here knows adding better players will generate better results, but that isn't necessarily the answer to every question posed. I am just pointing out that it seems like a lot of the bullpen options (some talented, some projects) seem to fall flat out of the gate under DJ and company. Obviously some projects are expected to fall flat, that is why they are projects, but so far basically every single one has. We can't even get lucky results with bad peripherals here and there. Heck, maybe it is just observation bias and no different than other teams. Either way, I have a hard time believing that pretty much the entire bullpen would suddenly be able to throw strikes to their career norms if we had signed Trevor May. Even guys like Doolittle and Bedrosian never really had issues throwing strikes yet have had big problems finding the zone.

Seems fair to question if something about the "spincincinnati" mantra is causing walks and homeritis out of the gate for bullpen guys.

[RedTeamGo!]

They've got to get roughly three more guys right in order to stop the bleeding. It can happen. Definitely ought to shuffle what they can shuffle.

What's a shame is the rest of the team is playing some quality baseball.

Ehhhhh, the infield defense is a Greek tragedy

[Falls City Beer]

Everyone here knows adding better players will generate better results, but that isn't necessarily the answer to every question posed. I am just pointing out that it seems like a lot of the bullpen options (some talented, some projects) seem to fall flat out of the gate under DJ and company. Obviously some projects are expected to fall flat, that is why they are projects, but so far basically every single one has. We can't even get lucky results with bad peripherals here and there. Heck, maybe it is just observation bias and no different than other teams. Either way, I have a hard time believing that pretty much the entire bullpen would suddenly be able to throw strikes to their career norms if we had signed Trevor May. Even guys like Doolittle and Bedrosian never really had issues throwing strikes yet have had big problems finding the zone.

Seems fair to question if something about the "spincincinnati" mantra is causing walks and homeritis out of the gate for bullpen guys.

This is the byproduct, however, of building a bullpen essentially entirely from projects though. Two or three actual MLB bullpen arms would go a long way to diminishing the exposure of 6 project arms, day in and day out. I think that’s KC’s point. But you’re right. It’s worth keeping an eye on the “spin” experiment.

[50YrRedsFan]

Noe is off to a decent (not great) start. 4.52 FIP, which is better than some guys we have.
We should have kept him instead of Bedrosian.
That's a pretty big miss by the Reds.

The story of Reds pitcher acquistions during the past few years. All they do is grab the cheapest warm body they can find.

[757690]

Let’s see some names. Sincerely, who is out there that the Reds could get to improve the pen?

[Falls City Beer]

Let’s see some names. Sincerely, who is out there that the Reds could get to improve the pen?

Sort of the point of being aggressive in the off-season. Like you said, it’s pretty unlikely teams are looking to trade at this point.

[Griffey012]

This is the byproduct, however, of building a bullpen essentially entirely from projects though. Two or three actual MLB bullpen arms would go a long way to diminishing the exposure of 6 project arms, day in and day out. I think that’s KC’s point. But you’re right. It’s worth keeping an eye on the “spin” experiment.

Certainly more projects are going to cause more bullpen volatility, but it’s not just the project arms. I would expect experienced veterans, even if a bit of a project to not have some of the early issues we have seen the past two seasons.

Yet, we have a career 6 ERA guy who seems to be a plenty solid back of the rotation arm. Something just doesn’t add up between starting pitcher development and relief development. I am wondering if it is related to repetitions in the spring. I’d have to look back but it seemed like every spring box score had a bunch of random guys getting work but the main guys not getting much more work.

[Crumbley]

They actually believed that the bizarre looking Driveline guy was more important than the talent. That guy has to be a hell of a salesman.

[REDREAD]

Those are his 2020 stats actually, he’s still at the Angels alternate site. But yeah career 4ish ERA guy, nothing special but could be more at least competent than probably half the pen at this point.

Sorry about that. Thanks for the correction.

[757690]

Pretty much every reliever is a project, a failed starter who has to adjust to relieving. The list of established relievers who are decent for multiple years in a row is tiny.

Look over this list of FA this offseason. Very few are having good years this year, and the ones that are, you probably wouldn’t have guessed.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-age...elief-pitcher/

[Kc61]

Everyone here knows adding better players will generate better results, but that isn't necessarily the answer to every question posed. I am just pointing out that it seems like a lot of the bullpen options (some talented, some projects) seem to fall flat out of the gate under DJ and company. Obviously some projects are expected to fall flat, that is why they are projects, but so far basically every single one has. We can't even get lucky results with bad peripherals here and there. Heck, maybe it is just observation bias and no different than other teams. Either way, I have a hard time believing that pretty much the entire bullpen would suddenly be able to throw strikes to their career norms if we had signed Trevor May. Even guys like Doolittle and Bedrosian never really had issues throwing strikes yet have had big problems finding the zone.

Seems fair to question if something about the "spincincinnati" mantra is causing walks and homeritis out of the gate for bullpen guys.

Sure. But DeLeon (6.9), Perez (6.0) and Garrett (4.8) have had walk issues throughout their careers. Bedrosian less so but he is coming off an injured year and may just not have much left. These four have the highest Reds walk rates this year, or did coming into today’s game. The homer allowance is higher than last year so far, but Reds tend to allow a lot of homers in their stadium. And it’s all a small sample.

I just don’t think Reds have enough good relievers. Most of the starters are doing ok, they have the same coaches and philosophies. But sure, ask the question.