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Thread: The bullpen

  1. #61
    Member Hamilton95's Avatar
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    Re: The bullpen

    They need help. I hope they bring up Hendrix. Time for a shake up in the bullpen. This team is the nasty boys away from a WS caliber team.


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  3. #62
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    Re: The bullpen

    By the way I did not post for awhile because I have a broken right thumb. It is a pain in the butt with typos.

  4. #63
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton95 View Post
    By the way I did not post for awhile because I have a broken right thumb. It is a pain in the butt with typos.
    Easier for me to just hit like (thumbs up) lol.

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    REDREAD (04-23-2021)

  6. #64
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    Re: The bullpen

    At least the bullpen made it so the cost of Castellanos suspension was a moot point.

  7. #65
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Maybe this is a similar theory to that, but I was wondering with the potential MLB crackdown on pine tar and investigating Trevor Bauer’s balls out in LA, I’m wondering if all the walks are the result of the pitchers doing something different grip wise that would be related to that and all the Spincinnati stuff.
    I got blasted as being the dumbest guy on the planet for suggesting this very thing in the Bauer thread 2 days after the Bauer stuff was announced.

  8. #66
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    They've got to get roughly three more guys right in order to stop the bleeding. It can happen. Definitely ought to shuffle what they can shuffle.

    What's a shame is the rest of the team is playing some quality baseball.
    I agree.

    ChipR and I were at yesterday's game, and it was exactly like either you or woy said .. a Class A softball game. Quite entertaining and action packed as far as being a spectator goes. Crowd is moaning and screaming for them to get the damn ball over the plate. And when they do? Bamm! We were sitting there laughing our butts off at this pitiful, yet entertaining, display of whatever.

    And seeing Suarez playing SS boasts my position this is a square peg that management is trying to jam in a round hole. Was not impressed. Thought Tucker did a fantastic job behind the plate, not knowing where the pitch was going. I think he quit giving them signs (lol).
    Last edited by GAC; 04-23-2021 at 07:21 AM.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

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    REDREAD (04-23-2021)

  10. #67
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Sure. But DeLeon (6.9), Perez (6.0) and Garrett (4.8) have had walk issues throughout their careers. Bedrosian less so but he is coming off an injured year and may just not have much left. These four have the highest Reds walk rates this year, or did coming into today’s game. The homer allowance is higher than last year so far, but Reds tend to allow a lot of homers in their stadium. And it’s all a small sample.

    I just don’t think Reds have enough good relievers. Most of the starters are doing ok, they have the same coaches and philosophies. But sure, ask the question.
    Garrett is above 12 right now, Bedrosian was near 10, and Doolittle is at 7. Those are really bad and way above their career norms. Sure they have the same coaches but we really don't know about philosophies between starters/relievers. Even career 6.9 Jose DeLeon was only 4.8 in the rotation in his 2 starts.

    It just seems like something is amiss in the pen whether it is pitch calling, preparation, or something else. Maybe the Reds are trying to have the relievers be too perfect too early with their best pitches in the best locations, most of these guys have 15 innings under their belt between spring and the season.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  11. #68
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Garrett is above 12 right now, Bedrosian was near 10, and Doolittle is at 7. Those are really bad and way above their career norms. Sure they have the same coaches but we really don't know about philosophies between starters/relievers. Even career 6.9 Jose DeLeon was only 4.8 in the rotation in his 2 starts.

    It just seems like something is amiss in the pen whether it is pitch calling, preparation, or something else. Maybe the Reds are trying to have the relievers be too perfect too early with their best pitches in the best locations, most of these guys have 15 innings under their belt between spring and the season.
    Or they're aren't good "disciples" of what Johnson is selling?
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  12. #69
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Garrett is above 12 right now, Bedrosian was near 10, and Doolittle is at 7. Those are really bad and way above their career norms. Sure they have the same coaches but we really don't know about philosophies between starters/relievers. Even career 6.9 Jose DeLeon was only 4.8 in the rotation in his 2 starts.

    It just seems like something is amiss in the pen whether it is pitch calling, preparation, or something else. Maybe the Reds are trying to have the relievers be too perfect too early with their best pitches in the best locations, most of these guys have 15 innings under their belt between spring and the season.
    I would be a little careful about using BB/9 for individual relievers to draw too many conclusions yet other than "the walks are a problem"

    Doolittle went from 4 to 7 in one appearance with his 3 walk performance last time out

  13. #70
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    “Being a relief pitcher us such a roller coaster ride, you’re either a hero or the exact opposite, depending on what just happened. Everyone is coming down on your head, or else you’re almost a religious icon if you’ve won. Neither reaction is totally accurate.”

    ~ Dan Quisenberry
    This bullpen is less like riding a roller coaster and more like being chucked out of a plane without a parachute
    Stick to your guns.

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    REDREAD (04-23-2021)

  15. #71
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Bradley is out for awhile with an oblique injury. He had a 6 ERA when he was placed on the IL.
    Here's where I disagree. The Reds pen is bad because they failed to plan.
    Keeping Bradley, or adding another quality reliever or two is at least a plan that has a chance to succeed.
    Sure, Bradley is hurt now, he will come back at some point and likely be more effective than 6 of our bullpen guys.
    I mean, no one on this board was saying at the beginning of the season "Keeping Sonny Gray or Lorenzen was a horrible
    decision because they are hurt now".. That's the logic you are using.

    At bare minimum, the Reds should have added a guy that can consistently throw strikes. That's something that's killing us.
    Runners on base, they bring in a reliever like DeLeon, Garrett, Perez and it's an adventure to see if they can avoid walking a run in.. If they had very little money, at least add a "pitch to contact" guy that might not have the greatest K rate but can be counted on to throw strikes. Not my first choice, but it would be an improvement.

    Other than Dolittle, the bullpen was completely ignored and allowed to deteriorate. A big problem I have is that the Reds tanked for 5 years, then 2020 decided to be good again and then they pulled the plug way too fast. The Reds made big money during the tanking years, they OWED it to the fans to at least try to assemble a decent bullpen instead of being overly risk averse cheapskates. And then they will wonder why ballpark attendance drops even more when covid is over.

    Noe Rameriz.. Not a great reliever, but they could have kept him for a million or two.. At least that would have been another option to try out. But they were too cheap to keep him. There were other options too. And they could have made a trade.
    Instead, the plan was Sims, Antone, Garrett and spend as little as possible. That's inexcusable.

    Much like they wasted a lot of Votto's prime years, they have some good players on this team that they spent money on, but they are wasting it by cheaping out on the pen.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    TexasRedsFan (04-23-2021)

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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I would be a little careful about using BB/9 for individual relievers to draw too many conclusions yet other than "the walks are a problem"

    Doolittle went from 4 to 7 in one appearance with his 3 walk performance last time out
    For sure, just theorizing here. It is also plenty likely this is just some collective randomness rearing it's head at the same time. We also just might have some veterans who are toast.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    MoneyInTheBank (04-23-2021)

  19. #73
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    Re: The bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Here's where I disagree. The Reds pen is bad because they failed to plan.
    Keeping Bradley, or adding another quality reliever or two is at least a plan that has a chance to succeed.
    Sure, Bradley is hurt now, he will come back at some point and likely be more effective than 6 of our bullpen guys.
    I mean, no one on this board was saying at the beginning of the season "Keeping Sonny Gray or Lorenzen was a horrible
    decision because they are hurt now".. That's the logic you are using.

    At bare minimum, the Reds should have added a guy that can consistently throw strikes. That's something that's killing us.
    Runners on base, they bring in a reliever like DeLeon, Garrett, Perez and it's an adventure to see if they can avoid walking a run in.. If they had very little money, at least add a "pitch to contact" guy that might not have the greatest K rate but can be counted on to throw strikes. Not my first choice, but it would be an improvement.

    Other than Dolittle, the bullpen was completely ignored and allowed to deteriorate. A big problem I have is that the Reds tanked for 5 years, then 2020 decided to be good again and then they pulled the plug way too fast. The Reds made big money during the tanking years, they OWED it to the fans to at least try to assemble a decent bullpen instead of being overly risk averse cheapskates. And then they will wonder why ballpark attendance drops even more when covid is over.

    Noe Rameriz.. Not a great reliever, but they could have kept him for a million or two.. At least that would have been another option to try out. But they were too cheap to keep him. There were other options too. And they could have made a trade.
    Instead, the plan was Sims, Antone, Garrett and spend as little as possible. That's inexcusable.

    Much like they wasted a lot of Votto's prime years, they have some good players on this team that they spent money on, but they are wasting it by cheaping out on the pen.
    I appreciate the thought you put into this post

    A couple things on Bradley:

    - I think the point in bringing him up is more that the bullpen would be in largely the same situation that it is now and Redszone.com isn't known for giving much sympathy to "at least you tried"

    - There were concerns with Bradley already causing some of the board to be okay with him walking. Namely his loss of fastball velocity and drop in K/9, so I don't think it is purely the injury causing that sentiment

    I agree with you on Noe Ramirez. I thought there was a spot for a solid, stable reliever in the pen surrounded by high spin rate reclamation projects.

    Honestly, I thought a bullpen of Garrett, Sims, Doolittle, Antone, Bedrosian, Ramirez and 2 reclamation projects would be a decent, albeit unspectacular bullpen that could get you to the trade deadline where you could add a bigger piece. I can't explain what happened to Bedrosian. You are probably right that they cheaped out on Ramirez. I think best case scenario now is that Hoffman continues giving them 5-6 innings of 3 run baseball and Mikey Biceps can come back and stabilize the bullpen.

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    M2 (04-23-2021)

  21. #74
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: The bullpen

    Just to put a fine point on the bullpen issue, Reds SPs have a 3.70 ERA. And that's with Castillo off to a poor start and Sonny Gray only taking the mound once. The bullpen has a 6.00 ERA (only the Tigers are worse). They've allowed 55% of their inherited runners to score. That's worst in the NL. The Giants are 2nd on that list with a distant 41%. And only the Cubs have handed over more inherited runners.

    So, first thing they need is for guys to finish innings. This business of leaving behind a mess and the next guy making it worse has to stop.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    REDREAD (04-23-2021)

  23. #75
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    Re: The bullpen

    Bobby Nightengale
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    #Reds announce they've called up right-handed relievers Ryan Hendrix and Heath Hembree. IF Max Schrock optioned to the alternate site and LHP Cionel Pérez optioned to the taxi squad.


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