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Thread: Vladimir Gutierrez

  1. #61
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Getting angry at the analytics doesn't change what they're telling us. I'm enjoying the hell out of Vlad's current run. I think he might settle into a bullpen role with the extra velo he supposedly has working shorter stints. Maybe he continues to improve in future seasons. In the meantime, I'll take lucky, especially from a guy who's just keeping a rotation slot occupied until Hunter Greene or Nick Lodolo take it. Vlad only needs to be Mr. Right Now, and he's doing a great job of it.
    not angry, just pointing out how it's a flaw in analytics IMO when they do not factor in a rookie's ability to improve. most baseball players improve a lot from their rookie season. so, acting like vlad is going to be the same guy throwing the same pitches as he was during his first 5 starts in MLB seems foolish to me.


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  3. #62
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I mean, the dude throws 93 mph meatballs right down the pipe. He seems kind of like a pitch-to-contact guy. So far, the contact has been going to outfielders. I don’t think it’s just about analytics. Use your eyes.
    fair enough. i'm on vacation so i've just been following the games live via the ESPN app (basically an enhanced box score that has some cool graphics). i haven't seen vlad's last 2 outings. but the results are good and he is going to improve IMO. something seems to have clicked with him this year. was excellent in AAA for a month before his call-up. yeah, it was just a month, but now he's put up almost a good month of MLB starts too.

  4. #63
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Yeah, I agree. He should’ve been in relief all along. And though he wasn’t completely awful as a starter those games were becoming a tax on the team. Bad juju and all that.
    Hoffman strikes me as the classic #5 pitcher in that he only was there until something better came along.
    Now begins the winter of our discombobulation.

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  6. #64
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    also, vogelbach's comments about vlad are encouraging to me. vogelbach can hit. and he is impressed with vlad's ability to throw his curve ball for a strike pretty much whenever he wants to. and was impressed with the movement on his fastball too. could just be an opponent being extra classy, but his comments stood out to me.

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  8. #65
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    also, vogelbach's comments about vlad are encouraging to me. vogelbach can hit. and he is impressed with vlad's ability to throw his curve ball for a strike pretty much whenever he wants to. and was impressed with the movement on his fastball too. could just be an opponent being extra classy, but his comments stood out to me.
    Yeah, I mean whether or not he missed with a few fastballs over the plate (he threw a lot of good fastballs on the edges too, I watched) the Brewers were still not getting good swings on them and at times just plain whiffing on fastballs over the plate.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  10. #66
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Hoffman interests me as a reliever. He's pretty effective his first time through the lineup.
    Shades of BobSteve
    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    sdwagers for Reds GM!

  11. #67
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    I've been wondering how to phrase this. Vlad's PED suspension, for some, was his death knell. For me it was a desperate gamble, but one with a possible long lasting benefit. A quick burst to gain arm strength with the thought that maintaining might be easier then initial gaining of muscle. He was betting on his ability coupled with a physical improvement, not a technical one.

    Because it sure seems like the guy knows how to pitch. But he may have lacked in conditioning, stamina, strength, whatever.

    Honestly, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more to 23-25 year old guys seemingly headed to AAAA status and not seen as potential bullpen assets. The thing is the Reds got manhandled last night by a guy barely cracking 90-92 simply with movement alone. Wade Miley does that. (yep, still choking that crow down.)

    Vlad doesn't have to be JUST Mr. Right Now. He can be a part of the immediate future with Lodolo and Greene on the cusp and everyone, myself included clamoring for Antone in the rotation. It's really on him alone to make that happen.
    Mock a mocketty mockmock.

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  13. #68
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Charlie Goldsmith, Cincinnati Enquirer 7-23-21
    On Friday, the Reds announced that Gutierrez would keep his spot in the Reds starting rotation. Since starting pitcher Jeff Hoffman returned from the injured list, the team needed to decide whether Hoffman would get his spot back in the rotation or whether Gutierrez would remain Cincinnati’s fifth starter.

    Gutierrez will start on Tuesday against the Chicago Cubs, and Hoffman will move to the bullpen.

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  15. #69
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Charlie Goldsmith, Cincinnati Enquirer 7-23-21
    the "lesser of the evils" hall of fame.

    good decision though.

  16. #70
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I've been wondering how to phrase this. Vlad's PED suspension, for some, was his death knell. For me it was a desperate gamble, but one with a possible long lasting benefit. A quick burst to gain arm strength with the thought that maintaining might be easier then initial gaining of muscle. He was betting on his ability coupled with a physical improvement, not a technical one.

    Because it sure seems like the guy knows how to pitch. But he may have lacked in conditioning, stamina, strength, whatever.

    Honestly, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more to 23-25 year old guys seemingly headed to AAAA status and not seen as potential bullpen assets. The thing is the Reds got manhandled last night by a guy barely cracking 90-92 simply with movement alone. Wade Miley does that. (yep, still choking that crow down.)

    Vlad doesn't have to be JUST Mr. Right Now. He can be a part of the immediate future with Lodolo and Greene on the cusp and everyone, myself included clamoring for Antone in the rotation. It's really on him alone to make that happen.
    wait, it feels like you are advocating for PED usage.

    and i'm not mad at you.

  17. #71
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    To me its a toss up between Vlad and Hoffman in the rotation, but Vlad seems to have more upside simply because we already know Hoffman can't do it. The pen is a real mess right now and if Hoffman finds a niche with short outings, a refined pitch assortment and his first time through the order splits, its worth a try. Beats the heck out of using Garcia, Hendrix, Osich and some of these other guys who blow it regularly. At least Hoffman hasn't already proven he can't pitch in relief in the big leagues. We know those other guys are just lukewarm bodies at this point. Chances are Hoffman fails as well, but there is a slightly better chance at success with him than the alternatives IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  19. #72
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    wait, it feels like you are advocating for PED usage.

    and i'm not mad at you.
    Nope. Not advocating, merely understanding. If I KNOW I can pitch, but I'm lacking oomph, then I know I need a boost. Development looks at guys like that these days as minor league lifers. Vlad hedged the punishment against the reward and bet on his ability to pitch with more velocity. Now, IMO he's always been a bit of a mirage and destined for the bullpen. But he did the math and turns out he was right, at least to the extent that he's still on the 26 man roster, starting tomorrow and will likely finish the year as a Red, and not a Bat. It means he'll make about $500K this year. And it means he's at least a bullpen candidate next year. None of which was guaranteed 2 years ago when he was floundering at AA.

    Like I said, I'm really surprised we don't see this more in the minors.
    Mock a mocketty mockmock.

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  21. #73
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    In a weird way it feels like he is the MVP of the staff season to date. It just seems like every time the reds need a good start or a long start he has came through. Going into the game today I thought for sure the reds would get bowled over after last night and today’s pitching matchup.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  23. #74
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    His contributions this year are both surprising and under appreciated IMO. He was basically a guy most (myself included) were ready to write off over the winter. Now the question must be asked- is he pitching over his head or is he really a dependable rotation piece for the next several years?

    After all, he is only 25 and he was a heralded signing out of Cuba a few years back. I was at the game today (first game in 2 years) and I came away impressed.
    Last edited by Benihana; 08-01-2021 at 09:35 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

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  25. #75
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    Re: Vladimir Gutierrez

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    His contributions this year are both surprising and under appreciated IMO. He was basically a guy most (myself included) were ready to write off over the winter. Now the question must be asked- is he pitching over his head or is he really a dependable rotation piece for the next several years?

    After all, he is only 25 and he was a heralded signing out of Cuba a few years back. I was at the game today (first game in 2 years) and I came away impressed.
    The year couldn't have gone much better in terms of developing young players, could it?

    India's turned into a legitimate Rookie of the Year candidate. Stephenson's shown some real chops as a first division starter at catcher. Both Santillan and Gutierrez have shown at least flashes of good pitching. Four rookies have shown out.

    That allows the Reds a much easier time of adding real difference-makers at other positions, hopefully. (Assuming they're willing to spend that coin.) Losing a $5M Lorenzen doesn't sting quite as badly with solid pitching in the wings, IMO. And the addition of Santillan and Gutierrez this season (plus perhaps Greene and some bullpen arms next?) might mean Miley stays, as they don't have to pay the Lorenzens and Brachs and Doolittles and Bedrosians of the world a couple million here or there.

    Too, those arms can pay big dividends in other areas. If Gutierrez's not dependable, perhaps Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft behind him will be. Or Santillan. Or O'Brien. Or newly drafted 'Hoo, Abbott.

    Lots of arms to sift through, any of them seemingly capable of being a solid fourth or fifth starter. (And most with more upside than that.)

    I suspect he'd be an above average piece in the 'pen (similar to Antone and Santillan) if he's not a starter next season.
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 08-01-2021 at 09:44 PM.

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