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Thread: Willie Mays turns 90 today

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    Strategery RFS62's Avatar
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    Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Great article in the NYT with a fantastic picture of baseball's Secretariat


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/05/s...e-mays-90.html

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    How big a star was Willie?

    He had his own cartoon by the guys who did Rudolph... that's peak 1970's


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    Member SomeCallMeTim's Avatar
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    Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Secretariat is an accurate comparison.

    For me I always say that Babe Ruth had to be the greatest baseball player, but Willie Mays in my opinion is the greatest athlete and true 5 tool man to play the game.

    Side note: those clear, color pictures from that period gives me chills. We so seldom see that because of the grainy black and white video from that era. But to see the green grass and color on uniforms... sigh.
    Last edited by SomeCallMeTim; 05-06-2021 at 01:27 PM.

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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    The days when a movie being shown on network TV was appointment viewing

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCallMeTim View Post
    Secretariat is an accurate comparison.

    For me I always say that Babe Ruth had to be the greatest baseball player, but Willie Mays in my opinion is the greatest athlete and true 5 tool man to play the game.

    Side note: those clear, color pictures from that period gives me chills. We so seldom see that because of the grainy black and white video from that era. But to see the green grass and color on uniforms... sigh.
    This is my favorite Mays photo


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    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Today I learned that in addition to everything else he did, Willie Mays led the league in stolen bases four times.

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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Best player I ever saw play.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    How many here think he is the greatest ever?
    For the record I don't think so.
    Last edited by KeefeCato; 05-06-2021 at 03:06 PM.

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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCallMeTim View Post
    Secretariat is an accurate comparison.

    For me I always say that Babe Ruth had to be the greatest baseball player, but Willie Mays in my opinion is the greatest athlete and true 5 tool man to play the game.

    Side note: those clear, color pictures from that period gives me chills. We so seldom see that because of the grainy black and white video from that era. But to see the green grass and color on uniforms... sigh.
    That's a huge insult to Secretariat. Mays compares none whatsoever to Secretariat. Secretariat separated himself from all other Hall-of-Fame horses by leaps and bounds. Willie Mays is just another of super Hall-of-Famers where there are dozens as good as he was.

    Huge insult to Secretariat. You don't understand how good Secretariat was and don't understand how good Mays was compared to other Hall-of-Famers if you try to compare the two.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KeefeCato View Post
    How many here think he is the greatest ever?
    Not even up for discussion. He did nothing to prove himself to be the greatest ever.

    And, Mays was my favorite player as a kid before Bob Gibson replaced him there, and Gibson was still even after I became a REDS' fan. Gibson had to retire before Morgan was my favorite. Eric Davis is my all-time favorite.

    Yogi Berra was better than Mays. Ruth was better than Mays. Gehrig was better than Mays. At least 50 were better or equal to Mays. Dimaggio was better than Mays. Gibson was as good as Mays. Matthewson was better than Mays. Koufax was better than Mays. The list is long.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 05-06-2021 at 03:00 PM.
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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Willie Mays NL ranking in WAR
    1954 - 1st
    1955 - 1st
    1956 - 1st
    1957 - 1st
    1958 - 1st
    1959 - 4th
    1960 - 1st
    1961 - 2nd
    1962 - 1st
    1963 - 1st
    1964 - 1st
    1965 - 1st
    1966 - 3rd

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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Willie Mays NL ranking in WAR
    1954 - 1st
    1955 - 1st
    1956 - 1st
    1957 - 1st
    1958 - 1st
    1959 - 4th
    1960 - 1st
    1961 - 2nd
    1962 - 1st
    1963 - 1st
    1964 - 1st
    1965 - 1st
    1966 - 3rd
    How many of those led to winning the World Series. Oh, yeah. Absolutely none of them.
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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    I know I saw him twice that I know for sure: the final game at Crosley Field in 1970 and in the 1972 All Star game at Riverfront.
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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Willie Mays is just another of super Hall-of-Famers where there are dozens as good as he was.

    Yogi Berra was better than Mays. Ruth was better than Mays. Gehrig was better than Mays. At least 50 were better or equal to Mays. Dimaggio was better than Mays. Gibson was as good as Mays. Matthewson was better than Mays. Koufax was better than Mays. The list is long.
    I would love to see some evidence to support that claim.
    Books could be, and have been, written rating players, but I have never seen any evidence that there are or were "dozens" of players as good as Willie Mays.
    Career WAR ranks Mays fifth all time. According to Baseball Reference.com the top seven are Babe Ruth, 182.5; Walter Johnson 164.8; Cy Young, 163.6; Barry Bonds, 162.7; Mays, 156.1; Ty Cobb, 151.0; and Hank Aaron, 143.1. I will agree that Ruth was the most dominant player in MLB history, but there is an argument to be made that the quality of play has improved in baseball as it has in every other sport. In any event, the only players ahead of Mays in career WAR are three guys who last played MLB in the mid-1930s at the latest in an all-white league, and a fellow who it is fair to say has been linked to PEDs. I'd love to see the evidence that "at least 50 were better or equal to Mays."

    Edit: For what it is worth, I looked up the career WAR for the other players mentioned in the post I responded to: Lou Gehrig ranks 18th all time with 114.1 WAR; Christy Mathewson ranks 28th all time with 106.5 WAR; Bob Gibson ranks 47th all time with 89.1 WAR; Joe DiMaggio ranks 66th all time with 79.1 WAR; Yogi Berra ranks 193rd with 59.5 WAR; and Sandy Koufax ranks 321st all time with 48.9 career WAR.
    Last edited by RedsBaron; 05-06-2021 at 03:39 PM.
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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    How many of those led to winning the World Series. Oh, yeah. Absolutely none of them.
    In 1954 the New York Giants, lead by Willie Mays MVP season, won the World Series, 4 games to zero, over the Indians.
    Anyway, by that reasoning Ty Cobb and Ted Williams really sucked, as none of their supposed great seasons came on a World Series champion.
    Last edited by RedsBaron; 05-06-2021 at 03:39 PM. Reason: typo
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    Re: Willie Mays turns 90 today

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    I would love to see some evidence to support that claim.
    Books could be, and have been, written rating players, but I have never seen any evidence that there are or were "dozens" of players as good as Willie Mays.
    Career WAR ranks Mays fifth all time. According to Baseball Reference.com the top seven are Babe Ruth, 182.5; Walter Johnson 164.8; Cy Young, 163.6; Barry Bonds, 162.7; Mays, 156.1; Ty Cobb, 151.0; and Hank Aaron, 143.1. I will agree that Ruth was the most dominant player in MLB history, but there is an argument to be made that the quality of play has improved in baseball as it has in every other sport. In any event, the only players ahead of Mays in career WAR are three guys who last played MLB in the mid-1930s at the latest in an all-white league, and a fellow who it is fair to say has been linked to PEDs. I'd love to see the evidence that "at least 50 were better or equal to Mays."
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    I imagine that the average baseball fan — even people who would consider themselves to be somewhat passionate baseball fans — would know barely half of the people in the Hall of Fame. For every Ruth there is a Kelly, for every Mantle there’s a Lindstrom, for every Collins you’ve heard of there’s a Collins you have not heard of, for every Aaron there’s a Schalk, for every Satchel there’s a Bancroft.

    But it is is no crime to romanticize the Hall of Fame. In fact, it’s almost required. People want to believe in a Hall of Fame where the standard is Willie Mays.

    So that’s my mission: To create the Willie Mays Hall of Fame.

    To get in, a player:

    1. Has to achieve a consensus of greatness. I like those words. Could make for a good book title: "Consensus of Greatness." The player had to be viewed as an all-time great by the majority of people, more, the VAST majority of people. This is by far our No. 1 goal here, to find those people who are viewed as legends.

    2. Has to be so good that there's no one precisely comparable. This is very important. One of the most annoying parts of the Hall of Fame to those people who want it reduced to the core is that people keep saying: "Well if Bill Mazeroski is in the Hall of Fame the n Frank White has a case to be in there" or "Well if Catfish Hunter is in the Hall of Fame then Luis Tiant has a case to be in there." The truth of these statements seems to annoy the hell out of them. They would rather Maz and Catfish were OUT rather than putting other people IN. So, we need players without annoying comps.

    3. Should pass what Tom Verducci calls "the eyeball" test. We're talking gut feeling here.

    4. Had to be in the same league with Willie Mays as an all-around ballplayer.

    And here we go...

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