Goldsmith says Winker practicing 1B in pregame

[MoneyInTheBank]

People keep saying stuff like this every time a player gets moved around again. Meanwhile the Reds continue to give up runs because of bad defense. Everyone is killing Castillo right now and Senzel had multiple bad plays at 2B on Saturday. He gave up an error on Friday that cost Miley a shot at a perfect game. Senzel is a player the reds have been jerking around the Diamond since he was drafted. I was watching the Indians broadcast and they had an entire segment about how every reds player has 2-3 different gloves. Manning made a comment “yeah, but nobody is a great defender at one position...” and he’s absolutely right.

If you want to talk Nick Senzel, we can talk Nick Senzel or if you want to talk team defense, fine. I'm talking about Jesse Winker taking ground balls during warm-ups. I find it seriously hard to believe that a 27 year old major leaguer with 6,000 OF innings under his belt would have his OF development compromised by a couple dozen ground balls.

[757690]

Does it?

So far this season in an extremely small sample size, Eugenio Suarez's SS defense ranks 20th in UZR/150. His UZR is 23rd. His defensive WAR is 0.2 and 22nd.

I'd largely argue that Suarez's glove has been a success.

It's his bat that's gone AWOL.

Check out his other defensive stats. He is -6 DRS, ranked 28, only behind Didi who is at -7.

This reveals a major flaw with Fangraphs’ UZR. They weigh everything according to how the rest of league is currently doing, not what the league does historically. Right now, there is an anomaly in which a handful of SS are performing poorly at SS. Seven SS are at -5 or worse. In 2019, there were only five SS that were worse than -3 over a full season.

Suarez is getting a pass right now with UZR because so many other SS are fielding poorly. Most of them will improve over the season. Maybe Suarez will too, but since he doesn’t have a long history at SS, we can’t draw that conclusion or take his UZR too seriously right now.

[Big Klu]

People keep saying stuff like this every time a player gets moved around again. Meanwhile the Reds continue to give up runs because of bad defense. Everyone is killing Castillo right now and Senzel had multiple bad plays at 2B on Saturday. He gave up an error on Friday that cost Miley a shot at a perfect game. Senzel is a player the reds have been jerking around the Diamond since he was drafted. I was watching the Indians broadcast and they had an entire segment about how every reds player has 2-3 different gloves. Manning made a comment “yeah, but nobody is a great defender at one position...” and he’s absolutely right.

Except for Barnhart.

[Kc61]

Does it?

So far this season in an extremely small sample size, Eugenio Suarez's SS defense ranks 20th in UZR/150. His UZR is 23rd. His defensive WAR is 0.2 and 22nd.

I'd largely argue that Suarez's glove has been a success.

It's his bat that's gone AWOL.

Yeah, it does.

Let’s add in the actual ratings, -1.1 UZR. -4.7 UZR/150. And as 75 noted, -6 DRS. And as you say, he’s 20th, 22nd and 23rd among 29 qualified MLB shortstops in the various stats you note. Tied for 27th of 29 in DRS.

That’s only a success in Reds world where expectations are low. But it’s not good, and he’s hitting .130, overall pretty much a disaster so far.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Yeah, it does.

Let’s add in the actual ratings, -1.1 UZR. -4.7 UZR/150. And as 75 noted, -6 DRS. And as you say, he’s 20th, 22nd and 23rd among 29 qualified MLB shortstops in the various stats you note. Tied for 27th in DRS.

That’s a success?

Maybe in Reds world where expectations are low but not to me.

But Geno was never moved there under the illusion he would be a league average or better SS (if you had that expectation, then you were setting yourself up for disappointment). He was put there because he was going to be a below average defender with an above average or elite bat.

[Kc61]

But Geno was never moved there under the illusion he would be a league average or better SS (if you had that expectation, then you were setting yourself up for disappointment). He was put there because he was going to be a below average defender with an above average or elite bat.

Exactly the point. He’s out of position. The Reds are making a habit of moving guys around the field rather than finding good defenders.

Expectations were low, performance is low, that should make nobody happy. Doesn’t get you wins.

As for Geno’s hitting, it’s grossly disappointing, but after 2020 not sure anyone should have expected “elite.”

[MoneyInTheBank]

Exactly the point. He’s out of position. The Reds are making a habit of moving guys around the field rather than finding good defenders.

Expectations were low, performance is low, that should make nobody happy. Doesn’t get you wins.

As for Geno’s hitting, it’s grossly disappointing, but after 2020 not sure anyone should have expected “elite.”

It's easy to sit here and armchair GM when they have a poor defender and say "hey, haven't these idiots thought about getting some good defenders?". Unless you have an unlimited budget, you are going to have to make some sort of compromise whether that is with the bat or the glove. If you wanted him to be a good SS, then you were just looking for reasons to be mad.

Yeah, his hitting has been disappointing but since you seem to have all the answers, I'm sure you saw it coming

EDIT: I was far too harsh here Kc. I apologize. I'm not going to delete because I need to own my mistake

[KronoRed]

I don’t like jerking players around like this. Winker is developing in LF. Let him continue to do so.

Bet Bell loves it, more opportunity for double switches.

[Assembly Hall]

Looks to me like Winker needs to take ground balls at SS...

[sdwagers]

The biggest problem is that 1B is a lot harder to learn than people think.

Just like how Ron Washington told Scott Hatteberg.