Oakland A's to explore relocation possibilities

[M2]

Agree. MLB may have gone to Tampa too early but given these populations shifts there is no way they leave now.

I don't see why they'd stay. There's no demonstrable local appetite for their product.

[DocRed]

I don't see why they'd stay. There's no demonstrable local appetite for their product.

The TB attendance doesn't give the complete picture of interest from the community. I read an article once detailing multiple reasons why attendance was low such as poor location and traffic issues. I believe they are traditionally somewhere in the middle of MLB in TV ratings.

[M2]

The TB attendance doesn't give the complete picture of interest from the community. I read an article once detailing multiple reasons why attendance was low such as poor location and traffic issues. I believe they are traditionally somewhere in the middle of MLB in TV ratings.

Lower middle, IIRC. And I don't buy the stadium location excuse. Pro sports teams generally have a hard time attracting fans in Florida. It's sunny outside. People do other things.

[bounty37h]

The Bulls are always one of my first thoughts when discussing MLB in the triangle and yes, it would likely result in significant changes for them, whether it be the team physically moving or becoming a lower classification.

Anyone who discredits the Raleigh area as a real player in professional sports expansion doesn't know what's really going on around here. The area is booming. Raleigh was listed as a the second fastest growing metro in the US last October, only behind Austin. Apple has just announced a billion dollar campus at RTP. While the western side of the area - Cary, Morrisville, Durham, Chapel Hill etc. has done its growing (though Durham almost stands alone as it continues to grow) its the eastern side with Johnston County that is seeing just ridiculous amounts of growth. This area could 100% support another professional sports team.

Baseball is a way of life around these parts and the states ability to support 12 minor league teams, two of them AAA proves that point. NC has some of the nicest lower ball stadiums i've seen. While a stadium like Zebulon (Mudcats), Hickory (Crawdads), Asheville (Tourists) is what you typically get for a A/A+, stadiums like Winston Salem (Dash), Kannapolis (Cannon Ballers), Fayetteville (Woodpeckers) are ridiculously nice for lower affiliates. Sure those three stadiums are all fairly new but they're much nicer than your average A/A+ ballpark. A MLB team would be incredibly popular for the area. We manage to support an NHL team and I wouldn't consider the area to be a hotbed of hockey fans.

Agreed. I'm in Pittsboro, the other side of Raleigh-apex, cary, Morrisville, Pittsboro are all blowing up as well.

[jimbroznan]

In the late 90's Austin was suppose to get the Houston AA team. The city was all set to build a new stadium on the Colorado River (Town Lake) on the east side of town which is historically the minority section. All hell broke out with the minority community- NIMBY, we had a bond election to build the stadium and it failed, Houston then built the stadium in Round Rock which back then was a couple miles north of Austin-they have since completely merged. Since then Round Rock is considered the best minor league city in the country attendance averaging 8-9k. Austin has raised the hotel sales tax a couple of times to pay for a new convention center and I doubt a bond issue to build a major league park would pass. Houston is 160 miles away and interest in the Astros is so small Spectrum does not carry their sports network.
https://smartasset.com/mortgage/best...all-towns-2016

[KronoRed]

Why would they? (Serious question...just curious.)

Seems like MLB has put obstacles in the A's way every time they try and do anything other then stay in Oakland, they would be in San Jose today if not for MLB.

It's like they want northern Cal to be a 1 team area.

[adkindo]

Lower middle, IIRC. And I don't buy the stadium location excuse. Pro sports teams generally have a hard time attracting fans in Florida. It's sunny outside. People do other things.

Have you ever been to Tropicana Field? It is not even in Tampa, but across the bridge in St. Petersburg. I do think when you combine the poor location and it's also not in a neighborhood that....uhh, comes off as inviting, a new stadium in a better location would help. MLB has struggled in Florida, but Pro sports has not struggled across the board. For example, the only "old" brand professional team in Florida is the Dolphins, and their attendance has always been solid win or lose (at least the last time I checked). The Miami Heat have remained in the top third in the NBA in attendance...even after they were an elite team. Most of the other teams is about winning and losing....for example when Gruden was in Tampa Bay, the Bucs was a hard ticket to get and I assume it will be similar this year with Brady. The TB Lightening are near the top in the NHL in attendance, and the Magic are middle of the pack in lean years....but they sold out most games during the Shaq/Penny years as well as the Dwight Howard years. I know it is a ramble, but the evidence suggests that Florida is actually a solid market for professional sports overall. As it becomes more common for generations to actually be born and grow up in Florida, the market should only improve. Much of the struggles in the 80's and 90's was most residents arrived in Florida already pledged to another team.

Now to baseball....it has been a struggle. I think Tampa Bay takes a hit because of the stadium which is just a bad baseball experience, but I also think the roster turnover annually plays the biggest role. As soon as a player has market value, he is shipped to another team. I am not sure how you build a loyal fan base without some consistency in the players on the field. If the Bucs and Lightening can be among the league leaders in attendance, then I think logic suggests Tampa should be a viable market for the Rays if they can get a decent stadium and maintain some "faces" of the organization for longer lengths of time. I do not have a great feel for the Marlins, but I assume it being a poorly ran organization for many years is partially to blame.....but I think most would be surprised how big of an impact that the post World Series fire sales still have on the perception of the team today. Fans bought in....and got burnt...gave them a second chance in 2003, and got burnt again. Many fans said never again.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Move them to Cincinnati. City needs an MLB franchise.


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[M2]

Have you ever been to Tropicana Field? It is not even in Tampa, but across the bridge in St. Petersburg. I do think when you combine the poor location and it's also not in a neighborhood that....uhh, comes off as inviting, a new stadium in a better location would help. MLB has struggled in Florida, but Pro sports has not struggled across the board. For example, the only "old" brand professional team in Florida is the Dolphins, and their attendance has always been solid win or lose (at least the last time I checked). The Miami Heat have remained in the top third in the NBA in attendance...even after they were an elite team. Most of the other teams is about winning and losing....for example when Gruden was in Tampa Bay, the Bucs was a hard ticket to get and I assume it will be similar this year with Brady. The TB Lightening are near the top in the NHL in attendance, and the Magic are middle of the pack in lean years....but they sold out most games during the Shaq/Penny years as well as the Dwight Howard years. I know it is a ramble, but the evidence suggests that Florida is actually a solid market for professional sports overall. As it becomes more common for generations to actually be born and grow up in Florida, the market should only improve. Much of the struggles in the 80's and 90's was most residents arrived in Florida already pledged to another team.

Now to baseball....it has been a struggle. I think Tampa Bay takes a hit because of the stadium which is just a bad baseball experience, but I also think the roster turnover annually plays the biggest role. As soon as a player has market value, he is shipped to another team. I am not sure how you build a loyal fan base without some consistency in the players on the field. If the Bucs and Lightening can be among the league leaders in attendance, then I think logic suggests Tampa should be a viable market for the Rays if they can get a decent stadium and maintain some "faces" of the organization for longer lengths of time. I do not have a great feel for the Marlins, but I assume it being a poorly ran organization for many years is partially to blame.....but I think most would be surprised how big of an impact that the post World Series fire sales still have on the perception of the team today. Fans bought in....and got burnt...gave them a second chance in 2003, and got burnt again. Many fans said never again.

The last time the NFL had fans at all the games, the Bucs were 30th in attendance and 31st in percent of seats filled. Going back five years, they're regularly near the bottom of the league. The Dolphins do well. In hockey the Lightning do well and the Panthers do terribly. In basketball, the Heat do well and the Magic are blah. Fair weather fandom seems to be the normal order, with the Dolphins and maybe the post-LeBron Heat being institutions. Anyway, the Rays haven't been willing to invest more than a 1/3 stake in a Tampa Bay stadium, which speaks to their confidence in the market.

[kaldaniels]

Except it did almost happen.

It really makes you think what will happen when the millennials progress to owning (the vast majority of) professional teams.

When you have endless resources Cincinnati vs Austin isn’t much of a choice.

Now do that for all midwest teams.

[cincinnati chili]

There has never been a Major League Baseball team in Tampa. It is in St Pete. While they don’t compare in mileage, in terms of rush hour drive time, picture Cincinnati to Dayton, except the highway is going over water.

[westofyou]

It really makes you think what will happen when the millennials progress to owning (the vast majority of) professional teams.

When you have endless resources Cincinnati vs Austin isn’t much of a choice.

Now do that for all midwest teams.

Follow the path of College Football power, or early NBA expansion and later NHL moves. They always are executed because of population saturation, which in turn is powered by increased economic mobility.

The Midwest has the handful of aging cities now, but they stole NBA teams from Rochester, Syracuse back when they were the aging smaller towns on the landscape. The middle of the country owned the post war landscape for mobility with California as the warm weather option. Growth in the south drove football a Midwest / West Coast annual parade to a southern flavored bent a couple decades ago, then NBA and NHL all followed full bore.. The Atlanta Hawks are a study in upward mobility. Tri Cities - Milwaukee - St Louis - Atlanta, as are the Sacramento Kings. There is a huge concentration of teams within a five hour drive of Columbus, meanwhile in Portland we have a three hour drive to one and a 10 hour drive to another. Something will give someday, maybe decades in some cases but economics will be the driver.

[plantmanky]

What about Mexico City?

[Big Klu]

What about Mexico City?

If you think the altitude in Denver is bad, it's nothing compared to Mexico City.

Denver: 5280 ft.
Mexico City: 7350 ft.

Additionally, Mexico City is much further south than people think. It is about 750 miles away from Houston, which is the only MLB city within 1000 miles (by air). And we haven't even started to mention the organized crime problem. I would not be surprised if a lot of MLB players would refuse to play for a Mexico City club.

[westofyou]

If you think the altitude in Denver is bad, it's nothing compared to Mexico City.

Denver: 5280 ft.
Mexico City: 7350 ft.

Additionally, Mexico City is much further south than people think. It is about 750 miles away from Houston, which is the only MLB city within 1000 miles (by air). And we haven't even started to mention the organized crime problem. I would not be surprised if a lot of MLB players would refuse to play for a Mexico City club.

750 miles is me getting in my car in Portland and driving to San Luis Obispo, it’s a haul