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Thread: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

  1. #31
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Basketball is a cesspool at the high school level even more so when you consider AAU ball. It used to be you would recruit a kid but once they were enrolled the kid gloves came off and you could really coach them.

    In today's game, everyone has the potential to transfer at anytime. Not only did you have to coach, but you have to worry about them transfering. You have to worry about roster building based upon the whims of a 18-22 year old kid. I think a lot of coaches if given the opportunity would rather not deal with that.
    You also have to be honest with kids who often are lied to all the time by hangers on, street agents, other kids, backers, and coaches already.

    Unlimited transfers is a true game-changers in college athletics.


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  3. #32
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    You also have to be honest with kids who often are lied to all the time by hangers on, street agents, other kids, backers, and coaches already.

    Unlimited transfers is a true game-changers in college athletics.
    There isn't a single kid who is recruited isn't lied to in recruiting. Now there may be varying degrees, but most recruits are lied to.

    How many coaches do you think would tell a recruit this: In year one you will come in, we will work you into the rotation and get you some minutes, in year two we expect you to develop into a starter, in year three we expect you to develop even further into a potential all conference player, and after you time here we expect you to make a living playing basketball overseas.

    Too many people have unrealistic NBA dreams and spend years toiling away in Des Moines making peanuts in the G-League instead of playing in Europe. If a coach came in and told a top 100 type recruit that his future was in Europe, he would have no chance of signing him.

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  5. #33
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Written a blank check, yes. Actually landing virtually any elite coach in this CBB landscape with said check, not so much.

    Wright and Few aren't going anywhere, except to the NBA if they so chose to eventually do so. Sampson, at his age, isn't leaving Houston. Scott Drew is firmly entrenched in Waco. Even the major conference up-and-comers - Oats, Musselman, for example. - are quite capable of producing championship teams in their current situations, instead of dealing with the fanbases and intense scrutiny associated with UNC, Duke, UK etc.

    This isn't a case analogous to OSU and Alabama football, in which you MUST coach for a top-tier job to realistically have a shot at winning a National Championship. No parity factor at all in CFB compared with CBB, but that's a topic for another thread.

    And I wouldn't be too concerned about Hubert Davis and Scheyer recruiting, with the established UNC 1-75 recruiting pipeline. And does anyone really going to believe that ESPN and the like are suddenly going to stop their constant promotion of Duke hoops? Such free promotion is quite a recruiting tool, no?

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
    Iím not saying they wonít get top recruits but I do think it will take a hit. I could see Duke and UNC both going back to the traditional method while Kentucky is still competing with the G-League for the top prospects.

    Itís one thing for Coach K to use Team USA as a selling point against Cal and his track record of one and dones. Itís another when itís first year coach Scheyer going against it. And Kentucky and Duke are pretty equal in their treatment by ESPN (although most UK fans donít see it that way)
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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  7. #34
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Isn't he K's head recruiter? If he is, he's largely responsible for the talent that has come in over the past several years. And to those who believe Duke cheats, he probably knows where the bodies are buried - so to speak.

    I'm sure a lot of the old-timers will be leaving but more likely because they are old.
    He is but Jeff Capel (who has since gone to Pitt) was the one responsible for the one and done era at Duke. He recruited Tatum and Zion among others.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Basketball is a cesspool at the high school level even more so when you consider AAU ball. It used to be you would recruit a kid but once they were enrolled the kid gloves came off and you could really coach them.

    In today's game, everyone has the potential to transfer at anytime. Not only did you have to coach, but you have to worry about them transfering. You have to worry about roster building based upon the whims of a 18-22 year old kid. I think a lot of coaches if given the opportunity would rather not deal with that.
    I think the transfer rule will be much more detrimental to college basketball than NIL for exactly the reasons you mention. Ask 100 players that have completed their college basketball careers and were successful, but did not start Game 1 as a Freshman; a large number of them will admit they would have considered transferring if there was no penalty. It will hurt more young men than it helps as one of the beauties of college athletics is kids are recruited and leave the program young men.....young men that have went through the bumps, struggles, tough times, etc. and overcame by learning discipline, teamwork, and communication skills in tough situations. Can anyone imagine if the Army allowed you to transfer to another unit or branch of the military during basic training if you were not content with your choice or did not get along with your Drill Sergeant (jeez, now that I said it, I can actually imagine this happening at some point)? There is a reason former players flock back to Morgantown every summer and speak of Huggins with great reverence....and it was not because he was so nice to them.
    ďThe object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.Ē
    ― Marcus Aurelius

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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Basketball is a cesspool at the high school level even more so when you consider AAU ball. It used to be you would recruit a kid but once they were enrolled the kid gloves came off and you could really coach them.

    In today's game, everyone has the potential to transfer at anytime. Not only did you have to coach, but you have to worry about them transfering. You have to worry about roster building based upon the whims of a 18-22 year old kid. I think a lot of coaches if given the opportunity would rather not deal with that.
    I agree with most of this, but again I think coaches and players will make adjustments and the game will be fine. I'd think the goal of any coach is to build the type of program where quality kids come in, love it, and want to stay there. I think eventually a lot of these kids will also realize the grass isn't always greener.

    BZ, to be clear, it's not an unlimited transfer rule. It's my understanding if you transfer for a second time you'll have to sit out a year. No in-season transfers with immediate eligibility and a few other stipulations.
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
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  11. #37
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    I agree with most of this, but again I think coaches and players will make adjustments and the game will be fine. I'd think the goal of any coach is to build the type of program where quality kids come in, love it, and want to stay there. I think eventually a lot of these kids will also realize the grass isn't always greener.
    I tend to view these statements through the eyes of the kid and parent instead of the coach or program and would argue that coaches don't often care about the quality of kid or what he learns as long as he can continue to help the coach win. Once he can't, the kid's almost always cut loose. He's also always recruited over.

    Why not give the kid the same freedom of movement?

    (I realize you're not arguing against this-- just ranting.)

  12. #38
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    I tend to view these statements through the eyes of the kid and parent instead of the coach or program and would argue that coaches don't often care about the quality of kid or what he learns as long as he can continue to help the coach win. Once he can't, the kid's almost always cut loose. He's also always recruited over.

    Why not give the kid the same freedom of movement?

    (I realize you're not arguing against this-- just ranting.)
    They arenít cut loose, they usually ride the pine or are moved out of the rotation. At that point, itís a participation trophy. The kid either stays and tries to compete for playing time or moves somewhere they should have went in the first place.

    I always think of Calipari when he says ďKentucky isnít for everybodyĒ. Heís not wrong but when kids are being wowed with Big Blue Madness, Nick Sabans Mercedes dealership and lake house, etc the kids make decisions on impulse.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  13. #39
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    They aren’t cut loose, they usually ride the pine or are moved out of the rotation.
    Bobby Petrino and Tom Crean disagree, but that's immaterial.

    Kids should have the freedom to move on if they want to.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Ohio State will visit Xavier as part of the Gavitt Games.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Ohio State will visit Xavier as part of the Gavitt Games.
    I see my Hoosiers got the Johnnies at home.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    This is pretty obscure, but I had a debate with a friend recently about Iowa State and Marquette basketball.

    Both hired news coaches this year; T.J. Otzelberger left UNLV for Ames, and Shaka Smart moved to Milwaukee from Texas.

    Who do you think will have their program in better shape in five years?

    Both are relatively down (hence the new coaches) but have had reasonably similar runs of success in the past 15-20 years. Marquette fans believe they could have hired Otzelberger had they wanted to (he was born and raised in Milwaukee). Shaka's obviously the bigger name of the two, but I'm not convinced he's the better coach. The shine is off after his time in Austin, though winning at UT is tough.

    Anyways, just curious to know what folks think (presuming people think of these programs at all).

  18. #43
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    This is pretty obscure, but I had a debate with a friend recently about Iowa State and Marquette basketball.

    Both hired news coaches this year; T.J. Otzelberger left UNLV for Ames, and Shaka Smart moved to Milwaukee from Texas.

    Who do you think will have their program in better shape in five years?

    Both are relatively down (hence the new coaches) but have had reasonably similar runs of success in the past 15-20 years. Marquette fans believe they could have hired Otzelberger had they wanted to (he was born and raised in Milwaukee). Shaka's obviously the bigger name of the two, but I'm not convinced he's the better coach. The shine is off after his time in Austin, though winning at UT is tough.

    Anyways, just curious to know what folks think (presuming people think of these programs at all).
    In my knee-jerk opinion, I think Marquette is the better job. Better history, better hoops programs and resultant talent, and less local competition. Iowa State has to compete not only with Iowa, but with Wichita State, Kansas, and Kansas State. Marquette has to deal with Wisconsin. Marquette has a history of "cool"-- the 1977 uniforms with Al McGuire and Butch Lee, D Wade. They also have an underrated group still playing in the NBA-- Butler is an All-NBA guy, Crowder is a first division starter, Wes Mathews is a second division starter, and a couple of young guys as well.

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  20. #44
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    In my knee-jerk opinion, I think Marquette is the better job. Better history, better hoops programs and resultant talent, and less local competition. Iowa State has to compete not only with Iowa, but with Wichita State, Kansas, and Kansas State. Marquette has to deal with Wisconsin. Marquette has a history of "cool"-- the 1977 uniforms with Al McGuire and Butch Lee, D Wade. They also have an underrated group still playing in the NBA-- Butler is an All-NBA guy, Crowder is a first division starter, Wes Mathews is a second division starter, and a couple of young guys as well.
    I think this is pretty spot-on summation of the programs. Marquette's got more history and more swagger. Milwaukee's a pretty good basketball town too (and they share the arena with the 2021 NBA champs!).

    Curious to know which coach you think will have more success.

    I ask because I'm a little bearish on Shaka. I think he caught lightening in a bottle at VCU, and he's got a lot of charisma. He recruited well at Texas but never managed to win a NCAA tourney. While Otzelberger didn't do much at UNLV, he was really successful at South Dakota State (though that 's been a really strong program for quite a while now).

  21. #45
    Thanks a lot, Bowie Kuhn Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    This is pretty obscure, but I had a debate with a friend recently about Iowa State and Marquette basketball.

    Both hired news coaches this year; T.J. Otzelberger left UNLV for Ames, and Shaka Smart moved to Milwaukee from Texas.

    Who do you think will have their program in better shape in five years?

    Both are relatively down (hence the new coaches) but have had reasonably similar runs of success in the past 15-20 years. Marquette fans believe they could have hired Otzelberger had they wanted to (he was born and raised in Milwaukee). Shaka's obviously the bigger name of the two, but I'm not convinced he's the better coach. The shine is off after his time in Austin, though winning at UT is tough.

    Anyways, just curious to know what folks think (presuming people think of these programs at all).
    IMHO, both hired the right guy. But, to answer the question of the program in better shape in five years, I'm going with Smart and Marquette under the following premise: Smart will not make the same mistake he made at UT of eschewing his 'havoc' approach for long stretches., especially mind-boggling when he had Myles Turner, Bamba, Jones, Sims and others protecting the rim over the years. And he's also going to require better luck with elements out his control than he experienced in Austin: Andrew Jones sidelined for long stretches with Leukemia, for example.
    Last edited by Revering4Blue; 08-02-2021 at 01:11 PM.
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