The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

[Kc61]

Worst thing Reds can do is force the issue with young pitchers in a futile chase of 2021.

When reasonably ready, sure, I don’t believe in too much gestation in the minor leagues.

But don’t push it. And if Santillan’s best served with bullpen time, don’t force him into the rotation initially.

This is the risk here. That Reds could try to promote fan interest by taking shortcuts with precious young pitching assets. It’s a no.

[JFLegal]

I haven't watched in a few weeks but I do keep up with their scores and peek on here every now and then. I knew before the season that this squad was going to be trash. I can't think of a single aspect of the game they are good at. They have a couple good players but as a whole are just terrible. Life is better after I ditched watching. Like I said before......they had a better team last season and didn't score a SINGLE RUN in the playoffs. How people attend any games at GABP is beyond me. 30 plus years of total ineptitude and no sunlight on the horizon either.

were you once a diehard who watched every game? then just stopped and kinda became a casual fan? that's what i need to do. this team doesn't deserve my time. at least not this much of my time.

[Falls City Beer]

were you once a diehard who watched every game? then just stopped and kinda became a casual fan? that's what i need to do. this team doesn't deserve my time. at least not this much of my time.

I’ve been that way—again—since 2015. I enjoy the game when I invest nothing in it. It’s like overhearing an argument that has nothing to do with me. Just an entertaining squabble with nothing at stake for me. The last time my blood pressure got up over this team was 2012.

[onehand]

Worst thing Reds can do is force the issue with young pitchers in a futile chase of 2021.

When reasonably ready, sure, I don’t believe in too much gestation in the minor leagues.

But don’t push it. And if Santillan’s best served with bullpen time, don’t force him into the rotation initially.

This is the risk here. That Reds could try to promote fan interest by taking shortcuts with precious young pitching assets. It’s a no.

Well, or course they will. What else can they do to promote "fan interest"? Showcase the stellar defense? The clutch hitting? The depth of the rotation? The bats off the bench?

[Kc61]

Well, or course they will. What else can they do to promote "fan interest"? Showcase the stellar defense? The clutch hitting? The depth of the rotation? The bats off the bench?

You’re probably right, but they should restrain themselves.

Reds should promote the team this year by offering bobbleheads and having fireworks.

[Wonderful Monds]

And there’s not much reason to buy this season due to the age of the roster, the lack of reinforcements in the upper minors, and the lack of play flex expected to be available next offseason. I hate to say it, but I think we’ve got another rebuild on our hands...

It’s kinda hard to tell. I’m not down for another 5 year plan now, or ever again. But I’m starting to lean towards them needing a retooling.

I actually think the rotation could be fairly promising the next few years. If they hit on Greene and Lodolo, and developing pitching seems to be on thing they’re actually good at, they have a contender’s rotation.

Castillo
Gray
Greene
Mahle
Lodolo


That’s a World Series rotation IMO. They have some guys that look like they could be decent bullpen pieces.

The lineup is what troubles me. Who’s relatively young in this organization and looks like they could be a cornerstone past the next couple years? I’ve got this....

C Stephenson
1B ?????
2B India?
3B I guess Suarez maybe? More likely Senzel
SS Garcia
LF Winker
CF Senzel if he doesn’t have to take over in the infield somewhere
RF ?????


That’s honestly not super promising IMO. Winker is in his first year of arbitration right now too, so he won’t be around forever. Senzel might be coming around, but I still wouldn’t necessarily say he looks like the heir to Votto’s throne as he once showed the potential for either, and he’s still kinda fragile enough he seems like he could be shattered by a modest breeze. TySteve looks alright, not really a middle of the order bat necessarily though? Geno might eventually bounceback, or he might be some Kingman-esque shadow of himself, a post 2015 Todd Frazier.

I do kinda think I would start moving some of these guys. If you can get a major package for one of Gray or Castillo, I think I’d do that. If you could get a blockbuster deal for Winker, maybe him. Maybe salvage what you can get for Geno once he shines up his trade value. Get anything you can, at least a guy who might be an average starting player somewhere, for Castellanos at the deadline even though unfortunately rentals don’t bring back jack anymore.

I do think they’re gonna have to make some painful trades this offseason and churn over a bunch of the roster.

[Red Raindog]

I’m 69 and watched too many bungled rebuilds to want to see more of them.


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[RedTeamGo!]

It’s kinda hard to tell. I’m not down for another 5 year plan now, or ever again. But I’m starting to lean towards them needing a retooling.

I actually think the rotation could be fairly promising the next few years. If they hit on Greene and Lodolo, and developing pitching seems to be on thing they’re actually good at, they have a contender’s rotation.

Castillo
Gray
Greene
Mahle
Lodolo


That’s a World Series rotation IMO. They have some guys that look like they could be decent bullpen pieces.

The lineup is what troubles me. Who’s relatively young in this organization and looks like they could be a cornerstone past the next couple years? I’ve got this....

C Stephenson
1B ?????
2B India?
3B I guess Suarez maybe? More likely Senzel
SS Garcia
LF Winker
CF Senzel if he doesn’t have to take over in the infield somewhere
RF ?????


That’s honestly not super promising IMO. Winker is in his first year of arbitration right now too, so he won’t be around forever. Senzel might be coming around, but I still wouldn’t necessarily say he looks like the heir to Votto’s throne as he once showed the potential for either, and he’s still kinda fragile enough he seems like he could be shattered by a modest breeze. TySteve looks alright, not really a middle of the order bat necessarily though? Geno might eventually bounceback, or he might be some Kingman-esque shadow of himself, a post 2015 Todd Frazier.

I do kinda think I would start moving some of these guys. If you can get a major package for one of Gray or Castillo, I think I’d do that. If you could get a blockbuster deal for Winker, maybe him. Maybe salvage what you can get for Geno once he shines up his trade value. Get anything you can, at least a guy who might be an average starting player somewhere, for Castellanos at the deadline even though unfortunately rentals don’t bring back jack anymore.

I do think they’re gonna have to make some painful trades this offseason and churn over a bunch of the roster.

I don’t see why any trades at this point would be painful. Winker and Antone are the only player worth anything long term.

Castillo - flawed and FA after 2023. Even if he turns it around and has a great second half this is absolutely not a pitcher you extend.
Gray - good, but getting old for an SP and seems like injuries popping up consistently. FA after 2022.
Mahle - solid, nothing special. Flawed with inability to go deep into games.
Miley - must be traded this year for whatever you can get
Lorenzen - gone after this year
Sims - solid middle reliever, if someone offers a decent prospect for him you take it and run
Garret - flawed, if someone offers a decent prospect for him you take it and run
Rest of relievers not worth mentioning

Barnhart - must be traded this deadline. Might be able to get a decent prospect for a catcher needy team
Votto - zero value on the trade market and has a NTC. At this point pray he retires. He won’t.
India - prospect, not much value, keep him obviously
Farmer - worthless
Suarez - if someone offered something decent you take it and run
Moose - if someone offered something decent you take it and run
Shogo - worthless
Senzel - no value right now. Hold on to him and hope he stays on the field for more than a couple weeks and actually contributes
Castellanos - absolutely must trade him at the deadline. Someone might give up a very solid prospect for him the way he’s playing. And if it’s a good organization he probably won’t opt out. You have to figure he’s absolutely opting out after this season. He has said repeatedly he wants to play winning baseball and the reds are losers.
Tyler Stephenson - rookie, keep
Blandino - worthless
Naquin - if someone offered something decent you take it and run

Am I forgetting anyone?

[REDREAD]

So here's a question, Senzel has 1 year, 150 days of service time (as of today, per Fangraphs)
We have played 42 games this year.. Assuming he is not sent down this year, he will get minimum 162 -42 = 122 days more.
He will probably get a few extra due to off days.. They say a player needs 172 days of service to get a year.
So end of year, he has 2 years, and about 102 days more.. I wonder if that pushes him into Super 2.
Maybe not, maybe 2022 is another cheap year for him.

A decision is going to have to be made on him soon. I am not saying to dump him, but the cheap years are coming to an end soon.

[RedTeamGo!]

I’m 69 and watched too many bungled rebuilds to want to see more of them.


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I’m not necessarily advocating for a rebuild, but what’s the alternative? This team sucks and has no future as is.

[Mitri]

Very embarrassing day/week.

[Mitri]

So here's a question, Senzel has 1 year, 150 days of service time (as of today, per Fangraphs)
We have played 42 games this year.. Assuming he is not sent down this year, he will get minimum 162 -42 = 122 days more.
He will probably get a few extra due to off days.. They say a player needs 172 days of service to get a year.
So end of year, he has 2 years, and about 102 days more.. I wonder if that pushes him into Super 2.
Maybe not, maybe 2022 is another cheap year for him.

A decision is going to have to be made on him soon. I am not saying to dump him, but the cheap years are coming to an end soon.

Senzel is definitely a keeper.

[RedTeamGo!]

Senzel is definitely a keeper.

He has no value, not really any other options aside from keeping him.

[Roy Tucker]

I’m 69 and watched too many bungled rebuilds to want to see more of them.


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I’ll be 69 in August too and have seen a lot of Reds baseball (either 57 or 58 years, I’ve lost track). If the season is interesting, I’ll follow the team closely. This year has been interesting up till these last few games. But I’ll hang in there with them for a while longer. Some things could pop right and they could contend. The one thing about baseball is that you never know what’s going to happen.

But I like baseball too so I’ll watch other teams with more interesting players as well. And it’s just about summer and we have the freedom now to get out and about now and travel and go places. So life is pretty good. I’ll take that. If the Reds get their act together, then that would be a lot of fun and really cool. Either way, we have a lot to look forward to.

[NC-Red]

were you once a diehard who watched every game? then just stopped and kinda became a casual fan? that's what i need to do. this team doesn't deserve my time. at least not this much of my time.

I'm still a die-hard fan and if the Reds ever get good enough to spark my interest then I'll pay closer attention. However, they haven't had such a team though since 2012 and even then had possibly the most devastating series loss in MLB history. There's absolutely no reason to slave away and watch them every night, it's honestly just not healthy. They are a pathetic franchise and honestly, I wouldn't blame a new owner if they moved cities because the city of Cincinnati will never have the budget to get them to where they need to be money wise to win a World Series.