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Thread: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

  1. #46
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    While I have nothing against an optimistic spirit in these discussions ... We're tired of being "hopeful" (LOL)

    But to put it more in perspective .... I've been an avid Red's fan almost 60 years. And in that time we had the BRM years, and 1990. Yes, there were some competitive (good) teams between now and then. Loved some of the 60s teams. But overall, pretty "league average" to mediocre. But it's not just Red's fans who are "suffering in travail", but it's quite common throughout both leagues in MLB.

    The Dodger's OD payroll was $247M. The Red's was $122M. Spending does not necesarily guarantee a winner - but it does help increase the odds, while also driving market prices that a majority of teams cannot afford.

    So if you can't afford that route, you try to even the odds with analytics, out thinking the opposition, utilizing statistic-based strategy. The only problem is those large market teams, besides their wealth and access to it, also utilize the same strategies (they're rich, not stupid). The difference (advantage) is - they can spend what they need to acquire it, and can eat/absord easier financial mistakes (i.e. take risks).

    When it came to guys like Bob Howsam ... even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. Be thankful for the crumbs that fall from the table (LMAO)

    As I watch this '21 team.. again, extremely embarassed by their defensve play ... the weaknesses they created in the pitching staff ... it once again falls on the shoulder (critical thinking) of those this OWNER put in charge.

    Our pre-season poll reflected a consensus Reds would be under .500 this year. Nothing here is so shocking. The terrible Giants’ series is just one four-game sweep. Not that unusual. The big 19-4 score yesterday is just one game.

    My view has been that Reds got away from the basics. They skimped this off-season on pitching and defense (no shortstop). They had less money to work with, but also lost sight of where to put their resources.

    The future can be bright because of the young pitching talent already in-house.

    There’s a good way forward. Build around Greene, Lodolo, Antone, Sims, Santillan, maybe Mahle (already arbitration). Favor youth over retreads. Look for young athletes. Make big ticket adds only as truly necessary.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-21-2021 at 07:38 AM.

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    CincyRed44 (05-21-2021),REDREAD (05-21-2021)


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  4. #47
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Berenyi View Post
    they have completely extinguished my care in the present all I really care about is Mel Behney
    I'm with ya bruce. Always enjoy your posts!

  5. #48
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    If the Reds could do what the Giants do, year in and year out, which is take B and B- prospects and turn them into everyday players, then they’d be much more relevant. The Reds can’t even turn blue chips into everyday contributors.
    That will never happen. I love the giants. They are everything the reds are not. Getting whipped by 3 of their own castoffs was a testament to the difference between reds coaching and giants coaching. And let's not forget the shortstop they needed so bad they traded to the angels. It's a tragicomedy. I follow the reds and this board purely for laughs.

  6. #49
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Our pre-season poll reflected a consensus Reds would be under .500 this year. Nothing here is so shocking. The terrible Giants’ series is just one four-game sweep. Not that unusual. The big 19-4 score yesterday is just one game.

    My view has been that Reds got away from the basics. They skimped this off-season on pitching and defense (no shortstop). They had less money to work with, but also lost sight of where to put their resources.

    The future can be bright because of the young pitching talent already in-house.

    There’s a good way forward. The question is whether Reds will put short-term popularity/attendance over a solid baseball plan that may take a year or two.

    A great young pitching staff, good young athletes at key positions, that’s the way to go. Build around Greene and Lodolo. Hope they do that.
    I have serious doubts about anyone in the Reds management putting together a"solid baseball plan". The ownership team has fumbled their way ever since they bought the team. Nothing will change.

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    REDREAD (05-21-2021)

  8. #50
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by scotly50 View Post
    I have serious doubts about anyone in the Reds management putting together a"solid baseball plan". The ownership team has fumbled their way ever since they bought the team. Nothing will change.
    Sympathetic to this. I’m pretty disgusted, I’m a very long-term fan.

    My hope is economics and sound planning converge.

    That Reds finally realize that producing great young talent - especially pitching - is the only way forward.

    They have the beginnings - Greene, Lodolo, Santillan, Sims, Antone, maybe Garrett and Mahle (though already in arbitration).

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    REDREAD (05-21-2021)

  10. #51
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by gagliano View Post
    That will never happen. I love the giants. ... I follow the reds and this board purely for laughs.
    Well, then I won't have to read one more word that you post here. Cheers!

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    NebraskaRed (05-21-2021),RedTeamGo! (05-21-2021)

  12. #52
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    just relax and remember how great Mike Frank and Mike Vail were

  13. #53
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Senzel is definitely a keeper.
    yea, but for how long? That's the problem. I am not criticizing Senzel, but he's about to hit arbitration, the team is really going nowhere (esp if Cast opts out) unless more money is dumped in.
    It's a decision we have to make with Winker too.. He's busted out, arb eligible, he's going to get a huge raise.. The Reds will likely either trade him or get rid of some other people to "make room
    in the budget" for him.. Hopefully it works out though..
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #54
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    That fangraphs figure is his cumulative service time as of opening day. If he stays up all year he’ll have 2.150 years of service and will definitely qualify for super two status assuming there is such a thing in the next collective bargaining agreement.
    Thanks for the info!
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  15. #55
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by gagliano View Post
    That will never happen. I love the giants. They are everything the reds are not. Getting whipped by 3 of their own castoffs was a testament to the difference between reds coaching and giants coaching. And let's not forget the shortstop they needed so bad they traded to the angels. It's a tragicomedy. I follow the reds and this board purely for laughs.
    That’s very sad
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    NebraskaRed (05-21-2021)

  17. #56
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Raindog View Post
    The alternative is to find something more productive to do with my time......

    Reds ownership is wearing me down


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

    Or you can do what I do.. Listen to the game on radio or stream it.. Do something else while the game is on (multitask).
    I can walk over to the laptop when something interesting happens. They will always replay it.
    I can get excited about the Reds having men on base without actually having to see it, or a Reds pitcher getting a key K.
    I will usually walk over to the screen when Cast is up and watch his at bat, just because he's my favorite.. not criticizing the other guys.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Bob Sheed (05-23-2021),BoxingRed (05-23-2021)

  19. #57
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    yea, but for how long? That's the problem. I am not criticizing Senzel, but he's about to hit arbitration, the team is really going nowhere (esp if Cast opts out) unless more money is dumped in.
    It's a decision we have to make with Winker too.. He's busted out, arb eligible, he's going to get a huge raise.. The Reds will likely either trade him or get rid of some other people to "make room
    in the budget" for him.. Hopefully it works out though..
    Senzel wouldn’t bring back much. And I’d like to see this team make a play for 2022. I think they can operate a smart, quick re-tool starting now that will redirect the team and free up a bunch of cash.

    I’d like to see them explore moving one of Moose/Suarez, one of Gray/Castillo, Castellanos (since he is likely opting out) and Barnhart. I keep Wink, Senzel, Mahle, maybe even look at extending 1 or 2 of those guys. I may look at keeping Miley around to stabilize the rotation.

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    REDREAD (05-21-2021)

  21. #58
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    While I have nothing against an optimistic spirit in these discussions ... We're tired of being "hopeful" (LOL)

    But to put it more in perspective .... I've been an avid Red's fan almost 60 years. And in that time we had the BRM years, and 1990. Yes, there were some competitive (good) teams between now and then. Loved some of the 60s teams. But overall, pretty "league average" to mediocre. But it's not just Red's fans who are "suffering in travail", but it's quite common throughout both leagues in MLB.

    The Dodger's OD payroll was $247M. The Red's was $122M. Spending does not necesarily guarantee a winner - but it does help increase the odds, while also driving market prices that a majority of teams cannot afford.

    So if you can't afford that route, you try to even the odds with analytics, out thinking the opposition, utilizing statistic-based strategy. The only problem is those large market teams, besides their wealth and access to it, also utilize the same strategies (they're rich, not stupid). The difference (advantage) is - they can spend what they need to acquire it, and can eat/absord easier financial mistakes (i.e. take risks).

    When it came to guys like Bob Howsam ... even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. Be thankful for the crumbs that fall from the table (LMAO)

    As I watch this '21 team.. again, extremely embarassed by their defensve play ... the weaknesses they created in the pitching staff ... it once again falls on the shoulder (critical thinking) of those this OWNER put in charge.
    It's pretty much this. The inequivalent payroll model in MLB is just a nightmare for the small market teams to deal with, and the competitive balance picks aren't enough to narrow the gap with the MLB draft being such an uncertainty.

    The Yankees have had their ace on the shelf for two years. They can find ways around that with money. They just buy Gerrit Cole. Something like that cripples us. We can see it this year with our post-Bauer life.

    The Dodgers can afford to trade away non-productive contracts for prospects from us because they can balance it by just eating Homer Bailey's contract, which was just hamstringing us the entire time.

    And MLB is cool with it because outside of California, the East Coast cities, and Chicago the rest of the league is basically looked at as flyover country farm teams.

    The game is simply on a higher difficulty level for Cincinnati than it is for Los Angeles.

    MLB will probably figure this all out roughly ten years too late.

  22. Likes:

    REDREAD (05-21-2021)

  23. #59
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    Quote Originally Posted by gagliano View Post
    That will never happen. I love the giants. They are everything the reds are not. Getting whipped by 3 of their own castoffs was a testament to the difference between reds coaching and giants coaching. And let's not forget the shortstop they needed so bad they traded to the angels. It's a tragicomedy. I follow the reds and this board purely for laughs.
    Laughs eh?

    Cute

  24. #60
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    Re: The 2021 Reds are an embarrassment

    senzel another great draft pick j ust like pat pacillo


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