Sell?

[elrojo]

Your statement about the precariousness of the 2022 season is well taken. Perhaps one of these aliens about to
visit us can play shortstop. Never too early to exercise an option on the boy, or whatever.

[REDREAD]

Ozuna out for at least 6 weeks...another team that could use a corner outfielder. Pache is already out too.

Also I'd say no way on Miley and his $10M option (well $9M at least). There are a few guys in our minors that can do what he does for a lot cheaper next year. I mean he's basically a 4 or 5 at this stage.

I disagree with you on Miley.
We have Hoffman in our rotation right now. He's clearly worse than Miley.
Who's being called up to take Miley's start? That Vlad kid.. He's probably not as good as Miley (I'm willing to be proven wrong).
Reds have a severe shortage of pitching. If Miley finishes the season strong, it's a no brainer to pick up the option, because we don't have
any spare pitching that is ready to replace him.

[DocRed]

I disagree with you on Miley.
We have Hoffman in our rotation right now. He's clearly worse than Miley.
Who's being called up to take Miley's start? That Vlad kid.. He's probably not as good as Miley (I'm willing to be proven wrong).
Reds have a severe shortage of pitching. If Miley finishes the season strong, it's a no brainer to pick up the option, because we don't have
any spare pitching that is ready to replace him.

I don't think he worth $10M next year. One or more of Lodolo, Greene or Santillan will be ready next year. Sure if he finishes strong it becomes a debate...I'm willing to be bet his ERA will be well north of 4.00 by the end of the year. When he was in Houston he had a sub 3.00 ERA going into September and then just completely collapsed and finished just under 4.00. His ERA in Sept/Oct that year was like 17 with a batted OPS over 1.200. He'll also be 35 next year.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...&t=p&year=2019

[mth123]

I disagree with you on Miley.
We have Hoffman in our rotation right now. He's clearly worse than Miley.
Who's being called up to take Miley's start? That Vlad kid.. He's probably not as good as Miley (I'm willing to be proven wrong).
Reds have a severe shortage of pitching. If Miley finishes the season strong, it's a no brainer to pick up the option, because we don't have
any spare pitching that is ready to replace him.

I'd guess Nick Lodolo next season. Hunter Greene at some point. Tejay Antone moves to the rotation as well. They need to get some young arms in thee deals to stock the bullpen. Use some of the money on a couple guys who are proven out there.

[klw]

[HokieRed]

I'd guess Nick Lodolo next season. Hunter Greene at some point. Tejay Antone moves to the rotation as well. They need to get some young arms in thee deals to stock the bullpen. Use some of the money on a couple guys who are proven out there.

Right. I'd wait till we've played 80 games before giving up on this season and I would not go into fire sale mode then. What I would do is to make every decision from that point forward based on the opening of the Lodolo-Greene-Antone window, and let's face it, if that window doesn't open, we're all stuck in the burning house. So we start to fill out the 2022 roster, first with the rotation. Lodolo, Greene, and Antone at the top in 2022, though I wouldn't force either of the first two this year; then we'll need to decide the 4 and 5 spots. One likely goes to Gray, the other to Mahle. Castillo, Santillan, Gutierrez, and maybe Riley O'Brien will need to be evaluated for the possible 5 spot. Miley's done good service for us, but his $10 million next year is better spent on the bullpen. I'd figure on Miley's salary, Lorenzen's, Castillo's (after he's dealt), Barhart's, and part of Castellanos' to go to building a really strong pen. Auditions for the pen should be wide open. They have a chance, as I see it, to put together a really strong staff and that should be the first priority.

[redsfan9988]

Right. I'd wait till we've played 80 games before giving up on this season and I would not go into fire sale mode then. What I would do is to make every decision from that point forward based on the opening of the Lodolo-Greene-Antone window, and let's face it, if that window doesn't open, we're all stuck in the burning house. So we start to fill out the 2022 roster, first with the rotation. Lodolo, Greene, and Antone at the top in 2022, though I wouldn't force either of the first two this year; then we'll need to decide the 4 and 5 spots. One likely goes to Gray, the other to Mahle. Castillo, Santillan, Gutierrez, and maybe Riley O'Brien will need to be evaluated for the possible 5 spot. Miley's done good service for us, but his $10 million next year is better spent on the bullpen. I'd figure on Miley's salary, Lorenzen's, Castillo's (after he's dealt), Barhart's, and part of Castellanos' to go to building a really strong pen. Auditions for the pen should be wide open. They have a chance, as I see it, to put together a really strong staff and that should be the first priority.

+1000

Your point on the urgency of building around Greene, Lodolo, and Antone is well-taken. Catellanos is the big fish and most obvious piece to deal. He fetched a recent 1st round SP prospect in a down year in 2019 when the Tigers dealt him. I would fully expect a top-75 prospect in return for him now. Barnhart and Miley must go - let's get a couple of decent relief prospects for those guys. I'm listening on Moose, Castillo, Gray, Suarez, Garrett, and Naquin. I don't feel compelled to move anyone on that list, but if you make it worth my while, I'm pulling the trigger.

[Coopdaddy67]

I have no idea why some of you think trading Luis Castillo is on the table right now considering his value has cratered.

[Old school 1983]

I have no idea why some of you think trading Luis Castillo is on the table right now considering his value has cratered.

Because Antone is an in house replacement that better even when Castillo is at his best. Castillo could bounce back, but what if Castillo craters more? He’s still a serious bounce back candidate currently.

[Coopdaddy67]

Because Antone is an in house replacement that better even when Castillo is at his best. Castillo could bounce back, but what if Castillo craters more? He’s still a serious bounce back candidate currently.

We have absolutely no clue how Antone will translate as a starter.

Unlike Antone and guys currently in the minors, Castillo has actually proven himself at the MLB level as a SP. Three of his five seasons with an ERA+ above 140. If the Reds sell low of Castillo, they're brain-dead.

[adkindo]

If ownership is not going to spend money to become competitive, then when is the next reasonable time frame the Reds believe if a few things go right they can field a NL contending team via development, youth, and some strategic additions? At least 2-3 years? If so, then I would be open to moving anyone that is north of 28 years old or that I do not have faith will be a contributor at that time....if I can get legit value in return. As a fan, I could care less about reducing payroll for the owner, so I am not giving away guys just to save a few $. Sonny Gray, Amit Garrett, Tucker Barnhart, Kyle Farmer, Eugenio Suarez, Shogo Akiyama, Tyler Naquin, Nick Castellanos, Mike Moustakas and Wade Miley are all guys that I would listen to offers on from other teams.

[GAC]

The Cincinnati Reds. Perpetual sellers. In a constant state of rebuild. In a so-so division where anyone slightly over .500 could win it. Coming to the end of May they're four games under .500 and 4.5 from the leader. And they need to concede '21, fold the tents up, and sell, sell sell. Again. After two months of baseball? Amazing

Those who are advocating ownership sell, and so early, act like you're stock holders who'll receive some dividend from it. Supporting selling off means you believe this SAME ownership will THEN make the right decisions throughout the entire process of putting the pieces together and the ship on the right course to winning.... over the course of the next 4-5 years. This same management that put us in this predicament in the first place.... "We'll get it right this next time!" It's like the fans are in a perpetual Groundhog Day (lol).

As far as I'm concerned, this management, this past off-season, has shown me how far they will go when the level of cheapness is concerned just by their handling of the SS position. There are other examples, but that was enough IMO.

So fans are screaming SELL OFF, which puts money in ownership's pockets (not ours), hoping they will spend it on the team and get it right at some point. I think we need some fans to get "woke".

I'm very much at peace with the fact that, due to the current environment in baseball, coupled with the "frugal" environment in Cincinnati, organizations like the Reds (and many others) winning a WS is like catching lightning in a bottle. You're businessmen; but not very smart baseball people. And you can't hire anyone who is it seems.

[Old school 1983]

We have absolutely no clue how Antone will translate as a starter.

Unlike Antone and guys currently in the minors, Castillo has actually proven himself at the MLB level as a SP. Three of his five seasons with an ERA+ above 140. If the Reds sell low of Castillo, they're brain-dead.

Sounds very similar to the we don’t know what he’ll do as a reliever prior to the season. I’ll reiterate. He’ll kick ass.

[Old school 1983]

We have absolutely no clue how Antone will translate as a starter.

Unlike Antone and guys currently in the minors, Castillo has actually proven himself at the MLB level as a SP. Three of his five seasons with an ERA+ above 140. If the Reds sell low of Castillo, they're brain-dead.

Also, with Castillo. DL him. Something. He’s pitching batting practice right now. As with Suarez who is getting outhit by Farmer, Castillo is being out pitched by Hoffman.

[mth123]

Right. I'd wait till we've played 80 games before giving up on this season and I would not go into fire sale mode then. What I would do is to make every decision from that point forward based on the opening of the Lodolo-Greene-Antone window, and let's face it, if that window doesn't open, we're all stuck in the burning house. So we start to fill out the 2022 roster, first with the rotation. Lodolo, Greene, and Antone at the top in 2022, though I wouldn't force either of the first two this year; then we'll need to decide the 4 and 5 spots. One likely goes to Gray, the other to Mahle. Castillo, Santillan, Gutierrez, and maybe Riley O'Brien will need to be evaluated for the possible 5 spot. Miley's done good service for us, but his $10 million next year is better spent on the bullpen. I'd figure on Miley's salary, Lorenzen's, Castillo's (after he's dealt), Barhart's, and part of Castellanos' to go to building a really strong pen. Auditions for the pen should be wide open. They have a chance, as I see it, to put together a really strong staff and that should be the first priority.

My plan would be Antone this year replacing Miley after he's traded. Lodolo next year, probably in June, but maybe by opening day. Greene not until after the 2022 All Star break, maybe not until 2023. I'd try to extend Mahle for cheap and one of Gray or Castillo. If you'd asked me in December, I would have said Castillo, but now I'm not so sure. Gutierrez, Santillan, O'brien and whoever else they have would be fall back options and hopefully solid bullpen pieces. The next guy in line if everything goes well is probably Lyon Richardson, maybe in 2024. This assumes everyone progresses and stays healthy. We know something will probably go wrong which is why they need to accumulate as many fall back options as possible.