Falls City Beer (06-08-2021),forfreelin04 (06-08-2021),Mitri (06-08-2021),Revering4Blue (06-08-2021),Roy Tucker (06-08-2021)
I just never believe that, e.g., when the Astros let go of Cionel Perez; or the Pirates Michael Feliz; or the Dodgers and Rays DeLeon; that these teams are inferior at evaluating pitchers.
Sure, you take a shot, once in awhile it works out. And Driveline has had success. But the odds seem low when guys kick around awhile, don’t have success, and are then released.
Last edited by Kc61; 06-08-2021 at 01:28 PM.
Reds ownership has been shortsighted for over 4 decades - the day they decided to ignore free agency in the Fall of 1976 marked a turning point in the franchise - basically let's play with one hand tied behind our back. In the 80's they squandered fan base by allowing the Cubs and Braves to enroach into their territory by superstations (rather than use the old Metromedia stations to their advantage). On and on, until this offseason, when ownership decided that Covid protocols were here to stay for as far as they could see, and there would be attendance limits all year and therefore, they had to make cuts to the team.
So here we are - most of this thread doesn't say spend more $$$, it says bring up prospects for the bullpen. I'm not sure it'll work, but its at least an option for this season. Spending on actual bullpen arms on the market is now a bigger hurdle than it was in January because those arms are dutifully employed and some of those prospects may be needed to get those arms (some of which are on par to the arms ownership gave away this winter for nothing - i.e. Bradley, Iglesias - and not saying they should of kept them, but giving them away for nothing still makes no sense at this time). The other issue is who is even available - what team has arms for sale at this point? Brad Hand of the Nats? Who else?
As I've said before ownership gave up for 2021 in January. To take that back now will be much harder and I've never seen one iota of evidence that ownership/management have the imagination of the Rays/A's to do that. If the team actually wins the division, it will be because of the players not management/ownership.
It’s worth mentioning that Wainwright pitched about 800 minor league innings before being promoted to the majors. Lodi Lodolo has pitched about 300 between college and the minors.
...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.
RedTeamGo! (06-08-2021)
I actually dont disagree with FCB on this one. The Dodgers have used each of Gonsolin, Urias, and May at various times early in their development in the bullpen. Some more sporadic than others. Usually dependent on team need, innings limits, etc. Glasnow is an example too, especially as a guy that had some injury issues and was slowly eased into things. Tampa moved him to the rotation after there was an easing in period to get him going.
I don't think at all easing a player into the majors through the bullpen, or a modified plan ruins it at all.
I do think Antone's long term future is as a starter, but no, I don't think he's being ruined, I do think the Reds are getting a high amount of value for him as the team is currently constructed, and have patience for this plan as time happens and we hopefully add some better relievers to the mix.
As for the minor leaguers like Greene/Lodolo, et al, I have interest in a similar, short term plan. These players will have innings limits this year (especially Greene), and getting some early major league experience through the pen seems like a reasonable fit for both player and team.
Again, would have an eye on long term development as starters.
*BaseClogger* (06-08-2021),Edd Roush (06-08-2021),Falls City Beer (06-08-2021),Griffey012 (06-08-2021),REDREAD (06-08-2021)
It may end up a moot point on Greene ending up in the bullpen, unless he figures out an off-speed/third pitch. And the best place to do that is not at the major league level.
Sure, he would most likely be effective enough coming and throwing two innings with a fastball/slider combination. But to start, he needs to develop an effective third pitch. Question is, do you want him developing that third pitch at AA/AAA, where the stakes are lower, or working on a third pitch in the 8th/9th inning of a pennant run?
Of course, it would be great to have Greene as a shut-down, high-leverage arm out of the pen, but suddenly the motivation to have him continue to develop as a starter wanes. He has no motivation to even work on a third pitch, because, chances are he won't need it in the Reds' bullpen. He will become a right-handed Aroldis Chapman, except now, 100+ mph pitchers are no longer a novelty.
To me, if Greene ends up as nothing more than bullpen piece, it would be a huge disappointment, and a waste of a high draft pick earned by suffering through a horrible season.
“I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane
“We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn
REDREAD (06-08-2021),RedTeamGo! (06-08-2021),Wonderful Monds (06-08-2021)
Exactly. Its OK to take a gamble once in a while. It can't be the primary plan for filling holes on the roster. De Leon has had a "great arm" for years. Fulmer has one of the best spin rates in baseball. Neither of those things has ever translated to big league success for these long stale one time prospects. No expectations it ever will at this point. Sure, roll the dice for little to no investment, but make them earn it, don't just hand them a spot and consider the holes filled. That's my issue with how this team operates.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
REDREAD (06-08-2021)
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
*BaseClogger* (06-08-2021)
Patrick Bateman (06-09-2021)
He's 23 and he's dealing. That's not a recipe for spending a lot of time in the minors. I get that there's a pile of things we don't know about him yet and that he hasn't seen, but if he's still chewing up opposing lineups in July he's going to be nearly irresistible. Will be curious what sort of innings/usage he's got. I'm guessing they gave him a simulated workload last year to advance him from the 128 IP he threw in 2019.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
CySeymour (06-09-2021),Falls City Beer (06-08-2021),forfreelin04 (06-09-2021),Mitri (06-08-2021),RedTeamGo! (06-08-2021),Revering4Blue (06-08-2021)
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