And if they didn’t trade Shed Long for Sonny Gray they wouldn’t have Sonny Gray and would have a bust.Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67
- - - Updated - - -
Ha, the White Sox traded for James Shield in 2017. They traded Fernando Tatis Jr for him. Not a great example lol.
What would you say.....ya do here?
I’m talking about the 2011 rumors. https://tampabay.sbnation.com/tampa-...incinnati-reds
"I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
RedTeamGo! (06-09-2021)
I believe the referenced trade, IIRC, in 2012 was the the Rays/Royals trade with Shields and Will Myers as principle components.
Nearly everyone thought Dayton Moore was crazy for engineering that deal at that particular time, but it really paid off for the Royals. It’s not often that two young organizational crown jewels are dealt for one another anymore.
Edit: WildCatFan answered the question.
Last edited by Revering4Blue; 06-09-2021 at 09:26 PM.
Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.
For some balance here…Can we do a “I’m done undervaluing prospects”?
Let me add India and Gutierrez to this list. All I read on Redszone was Guitierrez was making it on smoke and mirrors in the Cubs start. Well? I am hoping all of us is eating crow on that one soon.
Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.
The key is to know which prospects to keep and which ones to trade.
The Reds did a good job of that in the 80’s, trading Stillwell but keeping Larkin.
I’m pretty sure Reds fans are glad they didn’t pull the trigger on the infamous Eric Bedard trade rumor of Votto, Cueto and Bailey.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
Assembly Hall (06-10-2021),Old school 1983 (06-09-2021),Revering4Blue (06-09-2021)
If Shed Long is the type of prospect you're talking about giving up, I'm perfectly fine with that. He didn't have a high ceiling and his position greatly limited his value. India made him expendable too.
With that said, a prospect like Long isn't going to change the course of this season. Greene, Lodolo, and Barrero (maybe Hendrick and 1-2 more guys) are the only guys that can be packaged to add substantial talent to this roster. As I've said previously, trading any of those guys in an attempt to compete for a World Series this year would be stupid. If they were a piece away it would be one thing, but they aren't. They have a bunch of holes, can't stay healthy, etc.
*BaseClogger* (06-09-2021),Assembly Hall (06-10-2021),CarolinaRedleg (06-10-2021),Kinsm (06-10-2021),mth123 (06-09-2021),Revering4Blue (06-09-2021),Wonderful Monds (06-09-2021)
My bad, I read it as 2017
What would you say.....ya do here?
Keep the guys who might be superstars (Hunter Greene), trade the guys who don't have that kind of ceiling even if they meet it. And the Reds are going to have to keep some to back fill spots with a mid-tier payroll.
Honestly, the Reds have probably traded a lot more prospects to acquire big league talent over that span than a lot of teams. The few teams that have traded more, have very deep farm systems (TBR, SDP, LAD). And the last few years, I haven't regretted a prospect they have traded, so at least there is that.
"Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.
My philosophy would be for Reds to keep most of their good prospects. Trade them sparingly, maintain prospect depth.
Try to fill roster spots with young pre-arb talent rather than paying retail. Even a good vet reliever is $4-5 million, better off filling those spots with prospects where possible. Every spot you can fill from prospects frees up money for other needs. Also helps avoid bottom fishing for waived players.
Trade good prospects only when essential. Of course, if Reds don’t believe in a prospect, trade him more freely.
Last edited by Kc61; 06-09-2021 at 11:14 PM.
The first Reds prospect I remember being overhyped was Paul Householder. (2nd-round pick in 1976.)
That worked out well.
They did get Eddie Milner in the 21st round that year, though.
Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.
Chip R (05-26-2022),Hoosier Red (06-10-2021)
Man, it would be so awesome to know which ones to keep and which ones to trade. Unfortunately it’s pretty much all educated guesses.
"I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
Chip R (05-26-2022)
It’s basic talent scouting. No one bats 1.000, but the teams that are best at this are the teams that win championships.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
DocRed (06-10-2021),SoTxRedsFan (06-10-2021),Wonderful Monds (06-09-2021)
I’m arguing nobody bats .500.
"I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
Hoosier Red (06-10-2021)
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the teams with the deepest farm systems are the most competitive teams still to this day for the record. You could say the Dodgers have a billion dollars to invest in that, but the Rays do not, for example.
I still think they need to keep most of their promising prospects and make calculated decisions every now and then. Bauer was basically served up to them on a platter. As was Gray, even though Long was basically a negligible cost. I think something like a Latos trade also makes sense, but only after you’ve created a good foundation of affordable homegrown talent in the big leagues. I think they could be close to that point sometime in the next few seasons, although by now it won’t be without extending Winker for example.
Basically you still need to establish your Cueto, Votto, Bruce and Bailey core before you should start thinking about trading your Alonso and Grandal most of the time.
I think that might be true, but I also don’t think anyone should really honestly be all that invested or care much beyond about the top 3-4 prospects in any given organization at any time. I don’t think the likes of Matt Maloney or Jeff Gelalich or Juan Francisco or equivalent C- prospect predictably failing as big leaguers informs much on the likelihood of actual key prospects turning into MLB stars. I think it’s still a surprise that Senzel is looking like a washout, as guys who are advanced college bats drafted second overall tend to have pretty decent track records, more so than bottom of the rotation junk throwing fringe guys do.
I think there’s some merit in your overall point, but I would say at this point in time the best teams in the league are batting at least .500 when it comes to their actual core prospects. The Reds failure to do so still strikes me as being an organizational failure and the team still being behind the curve in developing players compared to the best of the league, and that’s the reason why they’re struggling to keep their heads above water right now.
Last edited by Wonderful Monds; 06-10-2021 at 11:32 AM.
Revering4Blue (06-10-2021),WildcatFan (06-09-2021)
Posting Permissions
|
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |
Reply With Quote