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Thread: Santillan to start Sunday

  1. #31
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Right now I don't care about his long-term. The Reds need all hands on deck in the pen, and he's got hands. It would be ludicrous to send him back to AAA based on "but he's a starting pitcher."
    I agree they need to give him a try for a while, but at this point he's not an answer, he's just a different question. Same as De Leon was, and Perez, and Feliz, and Bedrosian, and Doolittle ... For once, I'd like to see this Reds team answer a question with an actual answer instead of a new question.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH


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  3. #32
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Santillan did fine. Looking forward to more starts by Tony.

    First MLB outing, threw 97 pitches, left in to face batting order three times, finished in the rain.

    Not a finished product, but premature to limit him to bullpen or any other particular role. Has good stuff, let’s see how he develops.
    97 pitches and going through the line-up for a third time before making it out of the 5th inning isn't exactly doing fine IMO. He escaped a lot and he gets another look for sure, but I didn't come away from that performance enthused that the Reds had found another guy to nail down a spot. I agree that he's probably one of the best 13 guys for the staff, but that's more because there are only 9 or 10 guys on that staff who are big league caliber and three or four of those are on the DL.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  4. #33
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    97 pitches and going through the line-up for a third time before making it out of the 5th inning isn't exactly doing fine IMO. He escaped a lot and he gets another look for sure, but I didn't come away from that performance enthused that the Reds had found another guy to nail down a spot. I agree that he's probably one of the best 13 guys for the staff, but that's more because there are only 9 or 10 guys on that staff who are big league caliber and three or four of those are on the DL.
    A pitcher’s first major league game. How can we draw all these conclusions?

    Santillan was undoubtedly nervous. Yet nicely pitched out of trouble. Only allowed one run. Had to pitch in the rain, third time through the lineup.

    He did just fine. No conclusions should be drawn except he’s good enough to get more opportunities.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-14-2021 at 08:04 AM.

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  6. #34
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    A pitcher’s first major league game. How can we draw all these conclusions?

    Santillan was undoubtedly nervous. Yet nicely pitched out of trouble. Only allowed one run. Had to pitch in the rain, third time through the lineup.

    He did just fine. No conclusions should be drawn except he’s good enough to get more opportunities.
    I'm doing exactly the opposite of drawing a conclusion. I'm saying we need to see more before we chalk him up as an answer (which I think some people have already done because he only allowed 1 run). What I saw says maybe he could be, but if he throws that many pitches and walks that many guys, he's not. We'll give him a pass because maybe nerves had something to do with the walks and all the baserunners, but I didn't come away from that game feeling the way I did with Vlad so far. If he continues to pitch like this, I'd rather have Hoffman in that spot and I'm not really a big fan of Hoffman. I viewed that start as an indication that he isn't ready more than an indication that he's in the big leagues now to stay.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  7. #35
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Tony Santillan, recalled from Triple-A Louisville on Saturday to make his major league debut while filling in for injured Sonny Gray, fell one out short of qualifying for the win. The 24-year-old right-hander allowed one run on five hits and four walks in 4 2-3 innings, striking out five.

    Santillan needed 97 pitches to get 14 outs, leaving with the bases loaded and rain falling. He also hit two batters.

    “It wasn’t a pretty line, but I battled out of tough situations,” Santillan said. “I can be happy and build off that.”
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'm doing exactly the opposite of drawing a conclusion. I'm saying we need to see more before we chalk him up as an answer (which I think some people have already done because he only allowed 1 run). What I saw says maybe he could be, but if he throws that many pitches and walks that many guys, he's not. We'll give him a pass because maybe nerves had something to do with the walks and all the baserunners, but I didn't come away from that game feeling the way I did with Vlad so far. If he continues to pitch like this, I'd rather have Hoffman in that spot and I'm not really a big fan of Hoffman. I viewed that start as an indication that he isn't ready more than an indication that he's in the big leagues now to stay.
    I’m reading your posts to suggest Santillan’s a likely pen candidate mostly based on the one outing. If I’m incorrect, sorry, perhaps I’m misinterpreting.

    At AAA this year, he averaged 12.5 Ks in six starts. While that too is skimpy evidence, he seems to miss bats effectively. There’s no reason why Tony can’t compete for a starting role, even if not TOR.

    We just need to wait for a body of major league evidence.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-14-2021 at 10:52 AM.

  9. #37
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I agree they need to give him a try for a while, but at this point he's not an answer, he's just a different question. Same as De Leon was, and Perez, and Feliz, and Bedrosian, and Doolittle ... For once, I'd like to see this Reds team answer a question with an actual answer instead of a new question.
    I'd like to see them trade for some guys too, but they can't trade for everything they need in the pen. Santillan is there right now.
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  10. #38
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I’m reading your posts to suggest Santillan’s a likely pen candidate mostly based on the one outing. If I’m incorrect, sorry, perhaps I’m misinterpreting.

    At AAA this year, he averaged 12.5 Ks in six starts. While that too is skimpy evidence, he seems to miss bats effectively. There’s no reason why Tony can’t compete for a starting role, even if not TOR.

    We just need to wait for a body of major league evidence.
    I think for this year, we're expecting Gray to return, Miley, Mahle, Castillo are there and Vlad has got a big head start on Santillan (so does Hoffman honestly). So, the pen seems like the best place to get help from him. After that, we've got Greene and Lodolo coming, so if all goes as planned, there may never be an opening. We know it won't go as planned though, so I agree, we need to watch things evolve. Still, 4 walks and 2 HBPs while getting only 14 outs is pretty awful. That's almost enough baserunners right there even if he doesn't give up any hits. He showed some stuff out there and definitely gets another look while the rotation is short handed, but in all likelihood, the pen is where he can help. Of course, if he puts that many free baserunners on, I don't really want him in the pen either. Hopefully it was nerves and he gets his control back next time.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  11. #39
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think for this year, we're expecting Gray to return, Miley, Mahle, Castillo are there and Vlad has got a big head start on Santillan (so does Hoffman honestly). So, the pen seems like the best place to get help from him. After that, we've got Greene and Lodolo coming, so if all goes as planned, there may never be an opening. We know it won't go as planned though, so I agree, we need to watch things evolve. Still, 4 walks and 2 HBPs while getting only 14 outs is pretty awful. That's almost enough baserunners right there even if he doesn't give up any hits. He showed some stuff out there and definitely gets another look while the rotation is short handed, but in all likelihood, the pen is where he can help. Of course, if he puts that many free baserunners on, I don't really want him in the pen either. Hopefully it was nerves and he gets his control back next time.
    The only thing Hoffman has a big head start on is pitching himself out of the rotation.

    Santillan basically pitched like Hoffman, too many hits and walks, showed some bat missing ability. At least Santillan might offer some upside.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  13. #40
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Hoffman does okay first inning usually starting right?

    Maybe he could be an alright opener?

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    REDREAD (06-23-2021)

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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think for this year, we're expecting Gray to return, Miley, Mahle, Castillo are there and Vlad has got a big head start on Santillan (so does Hoffman honestly). So, the pen seems like the best place to get help from him. After that, we've got Greene and Lodolo coming, so if all goes as planned, there may never be an opening. We know it won't go as planned though, so I agree, we need to watch things evolve. Still, 4 walks and 2 HBPs while getting only 14 outs is pretty awful. That's almost enough baserunners right there even if he doesn't give up any hits. He showed some stuff out there and definitely gets another look while the rotation is short handed, but in all likelihood, the pen is where he can help. Of course, if he puts that many free baserunners on, I don't really want him in the pen either. Hopefully it was nerves and he gets his control back next time.
    Again, you keep coming back to Santillan’s first major league outing. And without important context, I might add, given his fifth inning in the rain.

    I won’t be responding on this any more, but it’s not a way to judge a pitcher. Or any professional athlete. Whether the outing is good or bad or in-between.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-14-2021 at 12:26 PM.

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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Hoffman does okay first inning usually starting right?

    Maybe he could be an alright opener?
    He's been pretty fine the first time through the order this year, and then gets lit up 2nd time around. This makes me think he might be able to carve out a useful bullpen role, or get used as an opener at times like you suggested.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    The results were overall good but he had to put out a lot of fires. The fact that he was able to put them out was a positive...the fact that there were a lot of fires isn't.

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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

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  21. #45
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    Re: Santillan to start Sunday

    I just hate the fact his ERA ballooned to 1.93
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