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Thread: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

  1. #46
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    There's a big difference between it could happen and it's likely to happen. I agree they should be burning up the phones right now, but we've been watching baseball long enough to know the market stays pretty quiet until July. Mind you, it's going to be impossible to tell whether it's a case of a sleepy market or the Reds dragging their feet. It would be refreshing for them to get ahead of the market for once.
    I get what you are saying, but I think the market stays quiet until July because most of the contenders
    want to wait until the last minute before buying. They want to make sure they are in the race.
    Obviously, no one wants to trade for a rental in June and then be out of it at the end of July.
    However, there's sellers and tankers out there now that would love to sell. We aren't looking
    for a Cueto to put us over the top like the Royals were. We're looking for a few relievers. Those
    do not cost much. Heck, the Diamondbacks gave us Bradley for basically nothing least year. They
    would have likely made that same trade months earlier, because they were tanking..
    There's a clear list of teams that are out of it now. Some of those teams have useful relievers.
    Some of those teams will eat the reliever's salary if throw in an extra prospect. Make it happen.
    This is likely the Reds' best chance of winning the division in the next 6 years or more.
    That's why I don't really care what prospects need to be traded. Obviously, don't make historically
    dumb moves,but if Greene could fetch us 2 impact relievers that fit the budget, I probably do that, because
    Greene on a perennial 4th place team is not going to help much..
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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  3. #47
    Member SomeCallMeTim's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by bm1475 View Post
    This is like one of those slights that happens in a relationship and you don't really think that much of it at the time, but as time goes on it bugs you more and more. That team had the horses to win it all (they should have in 2012 and I will go to my grave believing they would have if Cueto hadn't have gotten hurt). A replacement wouldn't even have cost that much money, and the team was right there. That was the most joyless winning/playoff season in history, and I believe not getting anyone to replace Ludwick was a big reason why.

    Ownership told everyone right there that they weren't really in this to win. They've done nothing since to prove any different.
    I’ll go one further. I think that 2012 team should have won even after losing Cueto. He didn’t get them to that 2-0 lead…

  4. #48
    Corky is The Way Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    But nope, easier
    to sit back and do nothing, and let that revenue sharing money and TV money roll in.

    It's the downside to revenue sharing.

    Any team owner able to convince its fanbase that they are "small market" and "trying to win", can just ride the wave. Collect the TV money, and let the franchise continue to appreciate in value, whilst dangling that hollow carrot to the fanbase.

    At least it's not Pirates ownership. They don't even bother with the carrot.
    “You are not Atlas carrying the world on your shoulder. It is good to remember that the planet is carrying you.”
    ― Vandana Shiva

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  6. #49
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    This is getting to be like 2013 all over again, where they've got an otherwise very solid team, but one glaring hole means they limp into the playoffs only to be quickly eliminated.
    aka 2020

  7. #50
    Bat Flippin’ Awesome Puig Your Red's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    I want to start by saying i am not a BobC fan and it would be swell if he sold the team, but I'm also not sure i 100% get why every time something goes bad with the Reds this year it's ownerships fault. They're 17th in payroll this year, so while they're not spending a ton it's not also like they've been "cheap." They sold off Iglesias and Bradley in the offseason due to cutting payroll, but it's also not Bob's fault they're spending $8 million on Shogo and $16 million on Moose.

    Bob isn't a good owner, but there's plenty of blame to go around here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    A little bit off topic, but do you guys think that Jesse Winker profiles more like Pete Rose or is he just the next Hal Morris??

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  9. #51
    Backup First Baseman OGB's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    I am sick and tired of Fruit Boy and the rest of this lame ownership group but I'm here to dispute the notion that the Reds will be looking for a new stadium in 10 years.

    Outside of Atlanta, where else has that happened?

    The Reds have actually invested millions of dollars of their own money (unlike the Bengals who bill the county for everything) into stadium improvements every off-season for years.

    They have a stadium in a prime location equipped to meet all the growing needs of major league sports and the fan experience going forward--something the concrete donuts of the 70s couldn't say, which is why they all got replaced.
    Last edited by OGB; 06-19-2021 at 03:59 PM.
    (Referring to Jack Hannahan signing with a Korean team)
    Since there are no teams on the moon, I guess South Korea's far enough from Cincinnati to satisfy me.
    -RichRed

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  11. #52
    Member wally post's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    It seems we simply can't do anything about ownership. I blame the owners for everything starting with not hiring experienced baseball people from successful orgs. It's rotten at the top-and nothing we can do except enjoy the little moments.

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  13. #53
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    I have lived in Atlanta since '93. The curse of being a Reds fan is lifelong.

    Example: after India clobbered that pitch Thursday night, I immediately stated that they needed 6 to 7 runs total to make it count. I was thrilled for both of the kids, but I know to well what a Cincy BP can do with a 2 run lead in the 9th.

  14. #54
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puig Your Red View Post
    I want to start by saying i am not a BobC fan and it would be swell if he sold the team, but I'm also not sure i 100% get why every time something goes bad with the Reds this year it's ownerships fault. They're 17th in payroll this year, so while they're not spending a ton it's not also like they've been "cheap." They sold off Iglesias and Bradley in the offseason due to cutting payroll, but it's also not Bob's fault they're spending $8 million on Shogo and $16 million on Moose.

    Bob isn't a good owner, but there's plenty of blame to go around here.
    Yeah I've found the response to the bullpen issue weird. To be clear I think it was sad that they didn't bother investing the savings on trading Iglesias and dumping Bradley back into anything, but the implication that "more money spent on the pen = success" is a very faulty one. Iglesias and Bradley aren't even doing so hot themselves.

    Really I'm surprised more ire isn't directed at the front office for having way too much faith in the Jose De Leons and Cionel Perezs. They gambled on these guys and got it wrong. The blame lies with them, imo.
    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

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  16. #55
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    I am sick and tired of Fruit Boy and the rest of this lame ownership group but I'm here to dispute the notion that the Reds will be looking for a new stadium in 10 years.

    Outside of Atlanta, where else has that happened?

    The Reds have actually invested millions of dollars of their own money (unlike the Bengals who bill the county for everything) into stadium improvements every off-season for years.

    They have a stadium in a prime location equipped to meet all the growing needs of major league sports and the fan experience going forward--something the concrete donuts of the 70s couldn't say, which is why they all got replaced.
    Arlington, although building an outdoor-only park in Dallas was the mistake back in the 1990s. They needed a roof. Toronto is apparently thinking about a new park and SkyDome is only 30ish, albeit more like a 70s donut than a retro park. Here in Phoenix they’re talking about doing something to a park that opened in 1998 and is now considered far too cavernous to be an enjoyable experience. GABP was one of the later parks built in the post-Camden Yards construction boom, so seeing what happens to the older vintage parks may be a hint as to what ends up happening with GABP and/or how the Reds play the situation.

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  18. #56
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by bm1475 View Post
    Arlington, although building an outdoor-only park in Dallas was the mistake back in the 1990s. They needed a roof. Toronto is apparently thinking about a new park and SkyDome is only 30ish, albeit more like a 70s donut than a retro park. Here in Phoenix they’re talking about doing something to a park that opened in 1998 and is now considered far too cavernous to be an enjoyable experience. GABP was one of the later parks built in the post-Camden Yards construction boom, so seeing what happens to the older vintage parks may be a hint as to what ends up happening with GABP and/or how the Reds play the situation.
    SkyDome is 32 years old -- the same age that Riverfront Stadium was when it was replaced.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  19. #57
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    I am sick and tired of Fruit Boy and the rest of this lame ownership group but I'm here to dispute the notion that the Reds will be looking for a new stadium in 10 years.

    Outside of Atlanta, where else has that happened?

    The Reds have actually invested millions of dollars of their own money (unlike the Bengals who bill the county for everything) into stadium improvements every off-season for years.

    They have a stadium in a prime location equipped to meet all the growing needs of major league sports and the fan experience going forward--something the concrete donuts of the 70s couldn't say, which is why they all got replaced.
    Riverfront Stadium opened in 1970 and GABP opened in 2003. So it’s in that ballpark. GABP is already nearly 20 years old.

  20. #58
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puig Your Red View Post
    I want to start by saying i am not a BobC fan and it would be swell if he sold the team, but I'm also not sure i 100% get why every time something goes bad with the Reds this year it's ownerships fault. They're 17th in payroll this year, so while they're not spending a ton it's not also like they've been "cheap." They sold off Iglesias and Bradley in the offseason due to cutting payroll, but it's also not Bob's fault they're spending $8 million on Shogo and $16 million on Moose.

    Bob isn't a good owner, but there's plenty of blame to go around here.
    That’s my issue - they didn’t need to cut payroll.

    The contracts they gave to Moose and Shogo are fine honestly. It sucks that Moose hasn’t been durable, and Bell has put Shogo in the doghouse for some reason but they’re not bad contracts.

    Likewise it’s not really an issue they dumped Iglesias, and I guess to a lesser degree Bradley. But that’s only really justifiable if they end up replacing them with a Brad Hand or what have you, guys that were readily available and cost more or less the same as the guys we just gave the boot.

    I’m not giving them a pass for cutting payroll after last year. There was no actual need to. And it’s not a coincidence that the next two teams below us in payroll are the DBacks and Rockies. The Brewers are right there too and they have the worst offense in baseball, at least last I checked.

    There’s no reason why this team can’t have an above average payroll, that’s the least to ask of an organization that’s also not willing to invest the money in a top tier analytics front office like Tampa or Oakland or Cleveland. We have a partnership with Driveline that’s not really paying any dividends beyond like Antone or maybe Mahle. Beyond that, they don’t get an excuse to have a payroll lumped together with the “LOL” division of the league.

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  22. #59
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Yeah I've found the response to the bullpen issue weird. To be clear I think it was sad that they didn't bother investing the savings on trading Iglesias and dumping Bradley back into anything, but the implication that "more money spent on the pen = success" is a very faulty one. Iglesias and Bradley aren't even doing so hot themselves.

    Really I'm surprised more ire isn't directed at the front office for having way too much faith in the Jose De Leons and Cionel Perezs. They gambled on these guys and got it wrong. The blame lies with them, imo.
    Don’t get me wrong, it was dumb that they basically expected Johnson and Driveline to work miracles and shine up turds like Perez and Deleon into gold, but there were guys signed for the money we booted that would’ve turned this into a passable if not outright good pen. Iglesias’ money could’ve bought Brad Hand, and IIRC all they would’ve had to do was claim him on waivers. I’m not sure if they would’ve even needed to outbid the Nats.

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  24. #60
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

    I have a feeling that GABP will have a longer life than Riverfront did. Parks like GABP, PNC, Jacobs/Progressive, and Busch III will be around for a while.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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