Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

[Wonderful Monds]

I have a feeling that GABP will have a longer life than Riverfront did. Parks like GABP, PNC, Jacobs/Progressive, and Busch III will be around for a while.

I generally agree, and while GABP is more impressive now than it was when it opened, I do remember people feeling pretty underwhelmed when it first opened. I guess that’s one of the things that the Castellini’s care about given that they’ve thrown a billion bars into the stadium. And people seem mostly satisfied by the glorified strip mall that is The Banks.

I would never be surprised by an MLB owner asking for more though.

[KronoRed]

Once the arena next door is demolished the Reds will ask for a rolling roof to be put in that stadium, similar to something the Royals tried

[Wonderful Monds]

The other thing is that while these stadiums might functionally have a longer lifespan than the old 70s cookie cutters, there’s a fairly established precedent that a stadium lasts for 30 years. And while the team is appreciating value as of now, they’re probably valued even higher with a brand new stadium.

I’d guess that’s why the Braves and Rangers both primarily got new stadiums while playing in relatively new ones.

So while GABP should last longer than that, I wouldn’t be surprised if ownership comes knocking again. Especially if the Bengals do so with Paul Brown Stadium. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds start looking for a place out in Oakley or whatever and follow the trend of more suburban stadiums.

[REDREAD]

The other thing is that while these stadiums might functionally have a longer lifespan than the old 70s cookie cutters, there’s a fairly established precedent that a stadium lasts for 30 years. And while the team is appreciating value as of now, they’re probably valued even higher with a brand new stadium.

I’d guess that’s why the Braves and Rangers both primarily got new stadiums while playing in relatively new ones.

So while GABP should last longer than that, I wouldn’t be surprised if ownership comes knocking again. Especially if the Bengals do so with Paul Brown Stadium. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds start looking for a place out in Oakley or whatever and follow the trend of more suburban stadiums.

I think it's going to be a hard sell to get the taxpayers to pay for a new stadium in the Cincy area, especially when the GAB is perceived as a good one. The argument they used to get the GAB was that a new stadium was needed for the team to be competitive.. well, they have not been competitive (other than the Walt years) since the GAB opened.. It's going to be hard to use that excuse again. The government promised to roll back the GAB property tax, and they never did it fully.. taxpayers only got roughly a 30% rollback.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ck/2617419001/

[mth123]

The other thing is that while these stadiums might functionally have a longer lifespan than the old 70s cookie cutters, there’s a fairly established precedent that a stadium lasts for 30 years. And while the team is appreciating value as of now, they’re probably valued even higher with a brand new stadium.

I’d guess that’s why the Braves and Rangers both primarily got new stadiums while playing in relatively new ones.

So while GABP should last longer than that, I wouldn’t be surprised if ownership comes knocking again. Especially if the Bengals do so with Paul Brown Stadium. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds start looking for a place out in Oakley or whatever and follow the trend of more suburban stadiums.

I hear you and we saw what happened in Atlanta, so you may be right. Those stadiums that started disappearing had a couple conditions in common though that made them obsolete. First, the invention of the luxury box added a significant revenue stream that benefitted both the owners and the players. Stadiums without luxury boxes needed to be replaced. Secondly, the majority were built on concrete slabs with Astroturf on top and after 20 or 30 years it became obvious what that was doing to the health of the players. Again, both owners and players were motivated to solve this. The players obviously complained, but the owners didn't want to invest big bucks in a player and see him on the bench all the time because the turf was taking its toll.

There may be something new that comes along to make the current stadiums obsolete, but I'm not aware of anything at this point, so the situation is different. I don't think ownership wants to burn its political capital asking for new parks unless there is an obvious pay-off like there was the last round. I'm sure something will come along sooner or later, but until it does, I don't see these stadiums disappearing. One or two individual situations may occur but Luxury Boxes basically required the whole league to change or be left behind. A few, like Fenway and Wrigley remodeled, but most just went with new stadiums.

[BCubb2003]

The only thing GABP doesn’t have is the roof. And considering how much of the riverfront relies on the ballpark being there, it seems unlikely that it would be wrenched out of there. You never know, but taxpayer support has been skeptical since the football stadium.

Back to the ownership question. It seems like the owners have learned the wrong lessons from their misfortunes.

1. Major meltdowns in the postseason? Get rid of the big name manager and rebuild (half-heartedly).

2. Rebuilds didn’t work? Decide it’s better to keep popular players than to build a winning team.

3. Black Swan of a global pandemic puts all teams on the same level? Keep zagging when you could have zigged. Instead of seizing the moment and the NL Central, they put the team at the usual small market disadvantage when they didn’t have to.

I understand why they did each of these things, but they learned the wrong lessons each time. This isn’t Tampa Bay, Miami or Phoenix, with thin legacies of Major League Baseball. This is the birthplace. Live up to that legacy and give Cincinnati the winning team it deserves.

[gagliano]

I’m sort of getting to that point, as goofy as it might sound to say this right now given how well they’ve played recently.

This team has like 80% of what you need to make a deep postseason run. They’ve got a good lineup, they’ve got depth when half the active roster doesn’t all hit the DL at once. They’ve got a competitive rotation.

The only thing missing is any semblance of a bullpen.



And that’s not even something that could be hard to put together at this point. As others have pointed out, relievers usually get traded around this time of year for PTBNL tier guys. The Reds usually are never in on these trades, with last year’s Archie Bradley trade being an exception.

There are any number of guys out there. Daniel Hudson probably wouldn’t take more than a B- prospect. I’ve thrown Mychael Givens name out there a few times, he only makes 1.3 million. All they would have to do is pay their contracts and they could be had for peanuts, and they can afford it.


So that’s what makes it all the more insulting that they booted Iglesias and non tendered Bradley, and then proceeded to stuff the 15 million dollar savings back in their pockets. They did jack to re-invest Bauer’s money after they left.


Even if you expect them to cut payroll after the covid season - which to be clear they absolutely did not have to do and could’ve weathered any losses perfectly fine (that was the entire point of cutting player’s salaries last year after all) - it’s not really acceptable in any manner to cut the payroll by 40 million dollars or somewhere in that ballpark if I’m not mistaken, and then just tell the fans tough luck.


I guess that’s why I’m getting to the point where if ownership doesn’t back this roster up, a team that has a couple MVP contenders on it and a lineup with depth to back them up, if they don’t put some of that money back into the team after 5 years of being a laughing stock and one barely .500 season - if they can’t spend like 5-6 million dollars to shore up the most easily filled black hole on this team, I think I might be done. I mean like, “go ahead and move the team because I refuse to support an organization that totally refuses to try to compete at all.”

We’re coming up on 20 something years of GABP, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are whispers about what’s going to replace it sometime in the next decade. And if I see a bunch of good relievers exchange hands for jabroni level prospects and the Reds don’t get in on it because they can’t unpinch their pennies, then I’ll do everything I can with my meager influence to vote against or otherwise do what I can to contribute to this team never getting another stadium in this city again. It’s time to put up or shut up with this ownership group. Just get it done.

The stadium they are in should last another 75 years.

[Wonderful Monds]

Kinda getting towards that breaking point again after tonight!


It’s getting to be beyond ridiculous that they have yet to add a legitimate relief option to this bullpen by now.

[Tom Servo]

Kinda getting towards that breaking point again after tonight!
It’s getting to be beyond ridiculous that they have yet to add a legitimate relief option to this bullpen by now.

It's mind boggling. There wasn't one guy on one of the teams going nowhere that they could have gotten over the break for a guy in A ball? Not one? The Braves got Joc Pederson for a guy like that but apparently there wasn't a single bullpen arm available. Alright.

[alexad]

It’s too late to
Get bullpen help. Should have happened during the all star break.

It is to the point of being too late. Waiting for the trade deadline will be too late.

This team has went from buyer to seller on a matter of 4 games after the break.


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[Coopdaddy67]

Things won't change until Castellini starts getting some real pressure from the fan base and the media. It's been deserved for awhile and hopefully it keeps increasing.

I desperately want him to sell the team and somebody that actually wants to win the World Series to purchase it. That would be terrific.

[Wonderful Monds]

It's mind boggling. There wasn't one guy on one of the teams going nowhere that they could have gotten over the break for a guy in A ball? Not one? The Braves got Joc Pederson for a guy like that but apparently there wasn't a single bullpen arm available. Alright.

It’s really hard to understand. It’s just beyond me that an extra million or two in payroll could somehow be breaking the bank for the group of people that own this team. Part of me is starting to buy into RTG’s take that Krall is in over his head, because it seems like it shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility to even find a guy making peanuts that would be an upgrade over like half the current pen.

[alexad]

Bell’s post game comments are the same thing every night. Blah blah blah we are going to come back tomorrow. Blah blah blah


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[NC Reds]

I guarantee they lack the courage to sell off Castellanos, or anyone else, even if they tank for another week. Expect a trade for Greg Holland and some happy talk about the veteran stability he provides the pen.

[RedTeamGo!]

It’s really hard to understand. It’s just beyond me that an extra million or two in payroll could somehow be breaking the bank for the group of people that own this team. Part of me is starting to buy into RTG’s take that Krall is in over his head, because it seems like it shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility to even find a guy making peanuts that would be an upgrade over like half the current pen.

I’ve been right about Krall since the offseason. Folks are starting to come around. GM’s do way more with way less. The Brewers payroll is $30 million less AFTER trading for Adames. The GM saw a need and filled it with an extremely solid SS on a cheap contract.

The reds have needed bullpen help for at least a month and Krall has done absolutely nothing but bounce crap relievers up and down from AAA. I’m sorry, but that is not on Castellini. Krall seemingly has absolutely no imagination. Either that or he is terrified to make a move.

I’m fully entrenched in my “it’s actually Krall that is the problem” mindset. Come to the dark side, my friend.