Anyone else at a breaking point with ownership?

[RedCanuck]

What can we do other than hope Castellini's out of there soon and the next owner understands that investing to build a winner and profiting (from that eventual winner) don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I’m sure not many people know who Jon Ledecky is; he is the current co-owner of the NY Islanders. He bought the team about 5 years ago.
The Islanders after many years of futility are in the Stanley Cups semi-finals for the second year in a row. I bring this up because…..

https://www.bizjournals.com/washingt...04/story1.html

Keys to success:

Brian Compton
@BComptonNHL
I asked Jon Ledecky today how the #Isles have had so much success over the past three years. His answer:

1) Lou Lamoriello
2) Barry Trotz
3) An ownership group that stays the heck out of the way.
"We're not talking to Barry & Lou about who you're going to play on the 4th line."
10:18 AM · Jun 9, 2021

Lou Lamoniello 5 X Stanley Cup winner, Hockey Hall of Fame member Executive
Barry Trotz 1 X Stanley Cup winner, 2 x Gold Medal winner IIHF World Championship, 2 X NHL Coach of the Year

So if you hire the best experienced people and get out of the way; this is the results….

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_t...jpg&name=small

[JaxRed]

Castellni was supposed to be the cure for Linder. If Castellini sold the next owner would not be the cure either. No owner is going operate on basis of losing money every year.

You find me the billionaire who says who says "deficits don't matter, I'll spend whatever it takes, and make it up when I sell" then I'll support that person.

You aren't going to find them.

[WrongVerb]

I'm six years past that.

[M2]

One thing to keep in mind is even though we pretty clearly see the bullpen problem, it's going to be a month before teams get active in the trade market. Even if the Reds are willing to make moves, they probably won't come until the other side of the All-Star Game. The most immediate help they'll get is if Antone, Gray and Hoffman get healthy (possibly Lorenzen too) and that allows them to weed out some ineffective pitchers.

[BCubb2003]

I don’t think the Castellinis are cackling with glee like the Big Pizza folks on their private plane, but they need to be open with the fans about what the standards and expectations are.

[REDREAD]

One thing to keep in mind is even though we pretty clearly see the bullpen problem, it's going to be a month before teams get active in the trade market. Even if the Reds are willing to make moves, they probably won't come until the other side of the All-Star Game. The most immediate help they'll get is if Antone, Gray and Hoffman get healthy (possibly Lorenzen too) and that allows them to weed out some ineffective pitchers.

I disagree with this. The deals are out there if a GM is motivated to make them happen.
The Brewers got Adames. There's been a few other trades made since the season started.
Plenty of tanking teams that would love to dump salary or get younger.
Krall needs to get to work.. Seriously, toss in another prospect to get the team to eat the salary if need be.
At least get some decent middle guys and push guys like Dolittle, Hendrix, and maybe Garrett off the team.

[KronoRed]

As long as "HOMETOWN OWNER!" is a requisite for owning the Reds they will be like this.

[GAC]

Been at a breaking point since about 1964 (lol)

[mth123]

Castellni was supposed to be the cure for Linder. If Castellini sold the next owner would not be the cure either. No owner is going operate on basis of losing money every year.

You find me the billionaire who says who says "deficits don't matter, I'll spend whatever it takes, and make it up when I sell" then I'll support that person.

You aren't going to find them.

This is the most true statement I've ever read on Redszone. I don't know why we should expect anyone to operate at a loss intentionally. It just doesn't happen. They just need to be smarter.

[Thisyear]

This is the most true statement I've ever read on Redszone. I don't know why we should expect anyone to operate at a loss intentionally. It just doesn't happen. They just need to be smarter.

You know how many businesses operate at a loss to increase the businesses net worth. Uber and lyft still don't turn a profit. It is smart business in a lot of situations including owning a sports team. A winning Reds franchise is worth a hell of a lot more than a losing Reds franchise.

We don't know that he is losing money anyways. Cutting payroll 40million is a lot.

[Kc61]

I’ll take ownership at its word that payroll cuts were necessary. But the implementation of those cuts raises questions as to what ownership/front office was thinking.

Simply, they took too much from pitching. Losing Bauer, Disco, Iglesias, Bradley with only the cheapest replacements. They must have viewed their bullpen from a 1960’s viewpoint, today over 40 percent of innings come from pen.

Reds would say they didn’t expect the pitching to decline so much, but they had to know the risk of emphasizing scrap heap acquisitions, a trade for starter Hoffman with a 6 lifetime ERA, taking on Bedrosian and Doolittle after their 2020 performances.

[757690]

You know how many businesses operate at a loss to increase the businesses net worth. Uber and lyft still don't turn a profit. It is smart business in a lot of situations including owning a sports team. A winning Reds franchise is worth a hell of a lot more than a losing Reds franchise.

We don't know that he is losing money anyways. Cutting payroll 40million is a lot.

Every smart business model includes borrowing, creating some debt, in order to facilitate growth. When you have a cash cow like a major league sports franchise, it makes even more sense.

I am sure Castellini and the ownership group knows this, which is why I always roll my eyes when he says they look to break even every year. That just means they are pocketing money that could be used for growth.

[Todd Gack]

I went to the Reds game last Saturday with my family. It was a gift for my dad for Fathers Day.

I brought my two boys (ages 6 and 3) with me and even though it was 90+ degrees and 144824% humidity, the most miserable part of the afternoon was the fact that I had to pay $12 for a gd slushie. I swear if I have to pay $12 for a slushie again, I sure as hell better get a better arm to close the game than Amir Garrett.

We left after the 3rd inning.

[dfs]

This is the most true statement I've ever read on Redszone. I don't know why we should expect anyone to operate at a loss intentionally. It just doesn't happen. They just need to be smarter.

Maybe because the money in owning a baseball team is in the annual appreciation of the franchise and the value of the franchise is partially measured by it's fan base and fans are attracted to winning?

I mean...man it pains me to write this, but you don't hear about the cardinals whining about not having money to make moves. The franchise makes the moves it needs to put a decent team on the field EVERY year. Since ownership does this the fans fill that park. Since the park is full the franchise has more money for year to year operations AND the franchise will be worth even more when the owners decide to sell which is where the real money is.

Talking annual budgets for a sports team is a shell game. It always has been. When an owner talks like that (which is what all the reds owners since Marge have done) it means they don't care

[Roy Tucker]

Been at a breaking point since about 1964 (lol)

I think when the Reds traded Toney Perez to the Expos for Woodie Fryman and Dale Murray in 1976 was when I became aware of budgets and money and all that. Don Gullett was becoming a free agent and Bob Howsam was a huge opponent of free agency. So they did the math and decided Perez was expendable.

Ever since then, money has been at the root of most Reds’s trades. It was before then, but to a young Roy, it was a welcome to reality moment.