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Thread: UFOs

  1. #46
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by BernieCarbo View Post
    Things are better than ever.
    This is the part that has struck a nerve. Some things are better, but overall, climate change has gotten worse and more dangerous, significantly worse and significantly more dangerous.

    So while some things are better than ever, overall, things are not better than ever in terms of the environment.

    I am guessing you just meant “some things”, and left out the “some.”
    That’s why we’re playing, bro


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  3. #47
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    This is the part that has struck a nerve. Some things are better, but overall, climate change has gotten worse and more dangerous, significantly worse and significantly more dangerous.

    So while some things are better than ever, overall, things are not better than ever in terms of the environment.

    I am guessing you just meant “some things”, and left out the “some.”
    I was referring to the things that searay specifically mentioned.

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  5. #48
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    Don't worry about climate change in the midst of this discussion. We'll most likely learn to control our climate long before we can send a manned craft outside the solar system.

  6. #49
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Don't worry about climate change in the midst of this discussion. We'll most likely learn to control our climate long before we can send a manned craft outside the solar system.
    The law of entropy suggests that there's no way to completely eliminate pollution and waste. Increasing order in one place physically requires increasing disorder in another place.

    Environmental degradation could certainly cause a drag on human advancement, but it seems increasingly unlikely that it could stop or reverse it at this point, or that it represents an existential threat to the species.

  7. #50
    TyrannoSuarez Wrecks WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Blotto View Post
    The law of entropy suggests that there's no way to completely eliminate pollution and waste. Increasing order in one place physically requires increasing disorder in another place.
    That's not at all how entropy works. To start, increasing disorder only occurs in a closed system into which no more energy is put. But if we eliminate pollution, we are putting energy into the system, which is going to bring about greater order all around.

    Environmental degradation could certainly cause a drag on human advancement, but it seems increasingly unlikely that it could stop or reverse it at this point, or that it represents an existential threat to the species.
    There are a number of ways that pollution can affect the species. This is one...

    Male infertility crisis

    The male infertility crisis is an observed increase in male infertility in recent decades.[1] The earliest indications of this decrease first emerged in the 1970s. From this period, there has been a steady decline of 1.4% in sperm counts with an overall decline of 52.4% over approximately 40 years.[2][3] The crisis is particularly prevalent in the West such as New Zealand, Australia, Europe and North America. A reduction in other parts of the world has yet to be observed.[4]

    In its original form, it had begun as a study on male fertility. Evolving into a term used by journalists in the media as a common headline for the reporting for studies concerning sperm, infertility and declining male sexual performance.[5]

    Hypotheses for the causes of the crisis is still subject to ongoing further research. Existing research cites lifestyle factors and the presence of hormone-disrupting chemicals, known as endocrine disruptors, in the environment.[4]

    The effects and the issues caused are in the progress of development. As the understanding of the effects on individuals, family and society are ongoing subjects for further studies.

    This topic has been subject to rigorous debate in regards to the nature and exact degree of crisis that is exhibited in male fertility. However, it has generally been accepted within the scientific community as a key issue of male health.[6] Their aim is to bring the issue to the forefront of media and to public attention.
    Last edited by WrongVerb; 06-28-2021 at 11:03 AM.
    Gratitude + Forgiveness = Happiness
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  8. #51
    Corky is The Way Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    1. We can never go back, even if we wanted to.

    Do you know where nuclear waste is stored? In vacuum-sealed underground containers.
    And how is the vacuum seal maintained? By electricity.

    If we ever have a worldwide power outage, most backup generators will give us about two weeks before failing. Then the nuclear waste begins to escape from the underground containers and into the soil, contaminating the surrounding areas. And once it reaches a major water supply, that's game over.

    2. And don't eat too many fish, otherwise, mercury poisoning.

    3. The US, in large part thanks to the EPA, might be doing things better than any time after our Industrial Revolution, but meanwhile, China has 9 of the top 10 most polluted cities as they churn through their own, much larger, Industrial Revolution.

    4. What's an iceberg, Grandpa?

    But yeah, things are going great, climate-wise so quit yer complainin'.
    “You are not Atlas carrying the world on your shoulder. It is good to remember that the planet is carrying you.”
    ― Vandana Shiva

  9. #52
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    1. We can never go back, even if we wanted to.

    Do you know where nuclear waste is stored? In vacuum-sealed underground containers.
    And how is the vacuum seal maintained? By electricity.

    If we ever have a worldwide power outage, most backup generators will give us about two weeks before failing. Then the nuclear waste begins to escape from the underground containers and into the soil, contaminating the surrounding areas. And once it reaches a major water supply, that's game over.

    2. And don't eat too many fish, otherwise, mercury poisoning.

    3. The US, in large part thanks to the EPA, might be doing things better than any time after our Industrial Revolution, but meanwhile, China has 9 of the top 10 most polluted cities as they churn through their own, much larger, Industrial Revolution.

    4. What's an iceberg, Grandpa?

    But yeah, things are going great, climate-wise so quit yer complainin'.
    Do you have some link about electricity being required to maintain a vacuum? Not that I expect a world wide power outage, and which we would have even greater problems if that happened, but that doesn’t even make sense.

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  11. #53
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by BernieCarbo View Post
    Do you have some link about electricity being required to maintain a vacuum? Not that I expect a world wide power outage, and which we would have even greater problems if that happened, but that doesn’t even make sense.
    I'm curious about that as well. Seems like the opposite of what a failsafe should be.
    Gratitude + Forgiveness = Happiness
    "I believe in the Church of Baseball" -- Annie Savoy (Bull Durham)
    "Not knowing what something is, is not evidence that you know what that thing is" -- NdGT

  12. #54
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    I'm curious about that as well. Seems like the opposite of what a failsafe should be.
    Even beyond that, the point of encapsulation is to ensure that nothing comes out, and the only way to create a vacuum is to suck gasses out to get as close to a perfect vacuum as possible. To maintain that vacuum, you would have to hermetically sealed container. If the vacuum has to constantly be maintained, it means that something is getting in. With the technology that we have in advanced materials and laser welding, I can’t even imagine that.

    I’m trying to think of an application that I’ve worked with where we measured the effectiveness of a seal, and the closest I can think of is a system where we pumped helium into a container, and then a robot went to all of the external ports with a probe to detect if any helium is coming out. To give you an idea of the sensitivity of these probes, it could detect a helium leak so small, that the leak would take 10 years to fill a single champagne bubble. It’s down to the molecular level. And this was with a container that had actual ports on it, not a welded and sealed container.

  13. #55
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully.

  14. #56
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Ok, that's what I was imagining. Once they're sealed up, those containers just sit there. They'll be fine during a worldwide power outage.

  15. #57
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    Re: UFOs

    Yeah it's definitely an interesting question WRT for example the Yucca Mountain project. Ostensibly it's safer long-term to store the waste in a specialized facility like Yucca Mountain. However, when you consider the potential for accident when transporting the waste cross-country from the power plants to Yucca, it starts to maybe make more sense to store the waste on-site.

  16. #58
    Corky is The Way Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by BernieCarbo View Post
    Ok, that's what I was imagining. Once they're sealed up, those containers just sit there. They'll be fine during a worldwide power outage.
    I'm not sure you understand. During the aforementioned hypothetical long term power outage:

    Long-term waste storage may or may not be ok, short term. Long-term, it's just a matter of time.

    Short-term waste storage, as what is discussed here:
    https://www.nei.org/news/2019/what-h...clear-waste-us

    If power goes out for more than a couple of weeks, it's all escaping. No way around it. And just in the US alone, at any given time, there is an insane amount of this waste in this stage of storage.

    No joke. It's a sobering reality that we can never go back to the time before the industrial revolution. We are past the point of no return in this regard.
    “You are not Atlas carrying the world on your shoulder. It is good to remember that the planet is carrying you.”
    ― Vandana Shiva

  17. #59
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    I'm not sure you understand. During the aforementioned hypothetical long term power outage:

    Long-term waste storage may or may not be ok, short term. Long-term, it's just a matter of time.

    Short-term waste storage, as what is discussed here:
    https://www.nei.org/news/2019/what-h...clear-waste-us

    If power goes out for more than a couple of weeks, it's all escaping. No way around it. And just in the US alone, at any given time, there is an insane amount of this waste in this stage of storage.

    No joke. It's a sobering reality that we can never go back to the time before the industrial revolution. We are past the point of no return in this regard.
    No offense, but that link reads like a fourth grade science paper. And you brought up the theoretical power outage as it pertained to maintaining the vacuum.

    My original question was based on what you said earlier: "Do you know where nuclear waste is stored? In vacuum-sealed underground containers. And how is the vacuum seal maintained? By electricity." It didn't make sense, which is why I asked about why electricity would be needed to maintain a vacuum. I work with stuff like thins for a living, which is why I asked.

    I'm not an alarmist. Obviously you have been reading stuff that is scary, but the things you mentioned in your bullet points are not even in the top 1000 things that are a threat to the average person. Heck, people stuffing their faces with junk food and the resultant obesity will kill 200,000 people this year, far more than mercury in tuna.

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  19. #60
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: UFOs

    When it comes to UFOs, Big Foot, and Loch Ness .... I'm from Missouri. And No, IMO, they haven't come close (evidence-wise) to convince me. But it does make for stimulating and interesting coversations.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)


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