With Milwaukee starting to run away with the division....

[RedTeamGo!]

Yeah that’s a terrible trade, 2 of those players are why we’ve won anything at all this season, they better hope Antone comes back, he was already a 2 bWAR pitcher on his own. Our bullpen would have actual negative value without him. And Lodolo is probably a top 50 prospect by now alone.

I couldn’t care less about prospect rankings anymore. Until Lodolo does it at the major league level he’s just another guy in my eyes.

Senzel was a top 5 prospect in baseball. He sucks.

Adames has single handedly turned the Brewers into a WS contender.

[jwdoc77]

Antone is currently on the IL, will be shocked if he doesn’t require TJ again

Lodolo is currently on the IL, has been for weeks. He’s carving up AA hitters. Whoopdy do. Last time he faced major leaguers he got touched big time.

India looks good, still not sure about his bat moving forward.

I would still absolutely make that trade. Adames is a first division shortstop. 4-5 bWAR per season type player with 4 years old control. I would do that in a heartbeat.

Meanwhile the Brewers traded for Adames and he has put them on his back and their running away with the division.

PS: congrats on actually doing homework before posting. You did it!

As much as I dislike our front office…I’m sure glad you aren’t a member of it. That trade is atrocious!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[757690]

That’s not remotely true about everyone wanting him. Go back to the thread. I was on an island with that one with maybe a couple other posters. I believe at the time I said I would have traded Antone and Lodolo. Still absolutely would have done that, even though it clearly wouldn’t have taken that much from what the Rays ended up getting.

I said nearly everyone thought the Reds should target Adames and I stand by that. The debate was over what to offer for him.

You were on an island, but only because you were the only one who wanted to trade Antone, Lodolo and India to get him. Granted, India was not highly regarded by many back then, but Antone and Lodolo absolutely were. The Brewers acquired him for two middle relievers, so your bid was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.

[Bob Sheed]

FIFY

But I agree. I think we will all look back at this season and conclude that that trade was the turning point. The Reds needed a SS, and let a good one go to their division rival.

I remember back in the early 2000’s, they had a chance to get Rolen and then Chuck Finley, and both times the Cards traded for them, with money being the issue both times. And it was those trades that made the difference each season.

Or in 2012 when Ludwick got hurt on Opening Day. We saw the same deaf-ears response from the front office that we saw this offseason with SS, and relief pitching.

It seems to me that Castellini-owned Reds have only practiced two methodologies:

either
Tanking
or
Half-Measures

Neither get the job done, and the proof is in the results. This year in particular is frustrating to see the half-measure approach, because they are a legit playoff team with a real SS and non-dumpster-fire relief pitching.

Farmer has been looking good at SS, and I like Farmer. It's hard not to like most of these guys. Team chemistry seems off the charts. And the RP has at least been uneven of late, rather than dumpster-fire territory. But Farmer is not a starting SS and the RP ebbs and flows.

These upcoming games against the Brewers will be very telling.

[Thisyear]

Antone is the reds best pitcher?

You’ll have to explain to me how a 4-5 bWAR player is average.

Yes, you could argue for Mahle, but I think Antone has got the brighter future. Bwar is a useless stat to me. Maybe more accurately is he is average offensively. You saw what they got for him, and it was no where near this package. That alone should make you reevaluate how it looks as a trade.

[Wonderful Monds]

I couldn’t care less about prospect rankings anymore. Until Lodolo does it at the major league level he’s just another guy in my eyes.

Senzel was a top 5 prospect in baseball. He sucks.

Adames has single handedly turned the Brewers into a WS contender.

I mean prospect or not, those still have certain trade value. And a Tejay Antone, Nick Lodolo, and Jonathan India should buy you far more than one Willy Adames, as we know for the fact that he was traded for a couple relievers.

[Wonderful Monds]

Yes, you could argue for Mahle, but I think Antone has got the brighter future. Bwar is a useless stat to me. Maybe more accurately is he is average offensively. You saw what they got for him, and it was no where near this package. That alone should make you reevaluate how it looks as a trade.

I am also not a fan of bWAR which has too many absurd results that don’t pass the smell test. The most fWAR he’s ever put together there is 2.9, he’s on pace for around 3.6 this year. A solid player, but not a world beater.

[RedTeamGo!]

I said nearly everyone thought the Reds should target Adames and I stand by that. The debate was over what to offer for him.

You were on an island, but only because you were the only one who wanted to trade Antone, Lodolo and India to get him. Granted, India was not highly regarded by many back then, but Antone and Lodolo absolutely were. The Brewers acquired him for two middle relievers, so your bid was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.

Re-read the last sentence of the post you quoted

[RedTeamGo!]

I am also not a fan of bWAR which has too many absurd results that don’t pass the smell test. The most WAR he’s ever put together there is 2.9, he’s on pace for around 3.6 this year. A solid player, but not a world beater.

Incorrect. Most bWAR he’s had is 4.0 in 2019 as a 23 year old.

Just severely undervaluing Adames. Dude is currently leading the charge to a division title for the Brewers. Yeah, he’s mediocre. Right.

Check his home and away splits in Tampa. They paint the picture.

[Wonderful Monds]

Incorrect. Most bWAR he’s had is 4.0 in 2019 as a 23 year old.

Just severely undervaluing Adames. Dude is currently leading the charge to a division title for the Brewers. Yeah, he’s mediocre. Right.

Check his home and away splits in Tampa. They paint the picture.

I meant to mention I prefer fWAR. Those are his numbers on Fangraphs, which to me is the far superior version of WAR. At the very least it’s far from definitive that he’s a surefire consistent 4 win guy as you called him.


You’ll also notice I never used the word mediocre.

[757690]

Re-read the last sentence of the post you quoted

It’s like saying after proposing the infamous Votto, Cueto and Bailey for Bedard trade proposal, “yeah, it’s more than what he was traded for, but I still think it was a good proposal.”

I am rather certain that the combination of Antone, India and Lodolo will provide significantly more production/wins for the Reds in the future than Adames by himself. It won’t even be close. I mean it’s 10 years of team control of two of the best players on the Reds currently, but 6 more years of team control of top prospect, for a guy with 4 years of team control.

[RedTeamGo!]

It’s like saying after proposing the infamous Votto, Cueto and Bailey for Bedard trade proposal, “yeah, it’s more than what he was traded for, but I still think it was a good proposal.”

I am rather certain that the combination of Antone, India and Lodolo will provide significantly more production/wins for the Reds in the future than Adames by himself. It won’t even be close. I mean it’s 10 years of team control of two of the best players on the Reds currently, but 6 more years of team control of top prospect, for a guy with 4 years of team control.

I was waiting for someone to bring up the Votto thing. Not even remotely comparable.

[RedTeamGo!]

Look, I hope India continues to put up this kind of production. Small sample size, though.

I pretty much don’t consider Antone a factor moving forward at this point until he proves he’s healthy. I will be shocked if he doesn’t require TJ again.

I know I’m getting killed for this. Don’t really care. Sick of watching teams like the Brewers and Cardinals make moves while we sit here and talk about how great our reliever is and we absolutely couldn’t trade him for a proven leaders and player that is leading our division rival to the postseason and has turned them into the hottest team in baseball. The reds suck, let’s keep doing the same stuff. Works awesomely.

[757690]

I was waiting for someone to bring up the Votto thing. Not even remotely comparable.

That was an analogy, not a comparison.

[Wonderful Monds]

Look, I hope India continues to put up this kind of production. Small sample size, though.

I pretty much don’t consider Antone a factor moving forward at this point until he proves he’s healthy. I will be shocked if he doesn’t require TJ again.

I know I’m getting killed for this. Don’t really care. Sick of watching teams like the Brewers and Cardinals make moves while we sit here and talk about how great our reliever is and we absolutely couldn’t trade him for a proven leaders and player that is leading our division rival to the postseason and has turned them into the hottest team in baseball. The reds suck, let’s keep doing the same stuff. Works awesomely.

So what’s the alternative, we should’ve given up three times the value he was actually traded for? We should trade a guy that has as much value alone as Adames has for him alone? Even though Antone is coming back in a couple weeks and says it’s a non UCL injury, despite the pessimism? This is also predicated on Adames being a 950ish OPS bat, which I don’t believe he is just based on a month or so of games sample size.


Sorry man but it’s a really goofy assertion to act like this is a no brainer move the Reds were idiots to not make and that everyone else just doesn’t get it for being on board with.