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Thread: Shogo

  1. #16
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    This is a surprisingly forgiving take from someone who isn’t exactly viewed as a level-headed pragmatist. Surprisingly, I don’t think I’m really known for that either.

    Gonna need you to show your work on the rather broad statement regarding the Reds being “killed for decades” for not dipping their toes in the Asian Baseball pool. It’s like we never hit The Bong. And Chen?? Bruce Freaking Chen? And yes, I know the Reds didn’t bring those guys over on their own.

    Everyone is disappointed in Shogo to some extent - even if said disappointment stems from the fact that he just hasn’t played that much.

    I’d actually like to see his name as a fixture in the lineup for 1-2 months before I make my final declaration of his worth. If the Reds start to tailspin and fall out of contention, let’s finally give him that extended trial. I know he isn’t Jacoby Ellsbury or Grady Sizemore, but I do think he’ll acquit himself well if finally given regular PT.
    I didn’t say Asian, I said Japanese.
    What would you say.....ya do here?


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  3. #17
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Bruce Chen is from Panama.
    Panama is an elaborate hoax.
    I can get you a toe, Dude.

  4. #18
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I didn’t say Asian, I said Japanese.
    Does it change your argument in any material fashion?
    I can get you a toe, Dude.

  5. #19
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Does it change your argument in any material fashion?
    The reds were the last MLB team to sign Pro From the Japanese league, thatís a fact Iím pretty sure thatís the point being made

    Tsuyoshi Nishioka failed as a Twin much like Shogo has as a Red, mostly because they approach hitting like itís 1965

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  7. #20
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Does it change your argument in any material fashion?
    Yes. Japanese players have specifically been a hot commodity for the past 20-30 years.

    When Shogo was signed a big deal was made out of him being the first Japanese player signing by the reds in history.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  8. #21
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    Re: Shogo

    while redteamgo has a point that reds fans were wondering when the team was finally going to get in the market for japanese players, i do not recall anyone pining for the reds to greatly overpay some judy hitter who is over the age of 30.

  9. #22
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    while redteamgo has a point that reds fans were wondering when the team was finally going to get in the market for japanese players, i do not recall anyone pining for the reds to greatly overpay some judy hitter who is over the age of 30.
    Career .454 slugging % in NPB with 112 home runs.

    I don’t understand, do people not pay attention to teams outside of Cincinnati? Teams give Japanese players moderately large contracts. MANY of them cover over and fail at the plate. The reds tried. It hasn’t worked out. I legitimately do not understand the point of constantly *****ing about it.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  10. #23
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Career .454 slugging % in NPB with 112 home runs.

    I don’t understand, do people not pay attention to teams outside of Cincinnati? Teams give Japanese players moderately large contracts. MANY of them cover over and fail at the plate. The reds tried. It hasn’t worked out. I legitimately do not understand the point of constantly *****ing about it.
    Because a team with limited resources needs to spend guaranteed money on less questionable stuff than some one who has never played in the big leagues. I felt the same way when they signed Alf and went immediately into the penalty phase. If the Reds were committed to seeing it through and spending to get what they need in spite of the failures, gambles like that would be viewed differently. Maybe they were at the time and the pandemic changed everything. I think spending several million on international signing last winter was a bad move when they couldn't afford a reliever or two. That's where the reallocated money went.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  12. #24
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Because a team with limited resources needs to spend guaranteed money on less questionable stuff than some one who has never played in the big leagues. I felt the same way when they signed Alf and went immediately into the penalty phase. If the Reds were committed to seeing it through and spending to get what they need in spite of the failures, gambles like that would be viewed differently. Maybe they were at the time and the pandemic changed everything. I think spending several million on international signing last winter was a bad move when they couldn't afford a reliever or two. That's where the reallocated money went.
    The pandemic absolutely changed everything. I get people want to complain about ownership not spending, but there was zero income last year from ticket sales and concessions. That is why they didn’t spend this offseason, not because of $7 million going to Shogo.

    I have absolutely no idea what AlfRod has to do with this. Apples and oranges.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  14. #25
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Career .454 slugging % in NPB with 112 home runs.

    I donít understand, do people not pay attention to teams outside of Cincinnati? Teams give Japanese players moderately large contracts. MANY of them cover over and fail at the plate. The reds tried. It hasnít worked out. I legitimately do not understand the point of constantly *****ing about it.
    Go read the thread about watching other MLB games and you'll see that a large portion of fans get their MLB from the Reds only. It would be akin to only eating White Castle and eschewing all the other burger joints

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  16. #26
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Dick Williams made it a priority to get into the Asian market, specifically Japan. He swung and missed on Ohtani. He went hard after Shogo, who I know people don’t want to admit it, was a hot commodity the offseason before 2020. There was mini bidding war for him. I guarantee if the reds had swung and missed on him they would have been absolutely killed on here for it.

    At the end of the day the Reds put their money where their mouth was. It hasn’t worked out. Life goes on.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  18. #27
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Because a team with limited resources needs to spend guaranteed money on less questionable stuff than some one who has never played in the big leagues. I felt the same way when they signed Alf and went immediately into the penalty phase. If the Reds were committed to seeing it through and spending to get what they need in spite of the failures, gambles like that would be viewed differently. Maybe they were at the time and the pandemic changed everything. I think spending several million on international signing last winter was a bad move when they couldn't afford a reliever or two. That's where the reallocated money went.
    Here’s a hypothetical:

    Let’s say some team called the reds prior to 2021 season and said “we love Shogo. We will take his entire contract over and give you a lottery ticket” and the reds took it.

    Do you, honestly, think in that scenario the Reds would have altered their “plan” for the 2021 bullpen whatsoever?

    I think it’s very obvious they would not have and just pocketed that money as well.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  20. #28
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Dick Williams made it a priority to get into the Asian market, specifically Japan. He swung and missed on Ohtani. He went hard after Shogo, who I know people donít want to admit it, was a hot commodity the offseason before 2020. There was mini bidding war for him. I guarantee if the reds had swung and missed on him they would have been absolutely killed on here for it.

    At the end of the day the Reds put their money where their mouth was. It hasnít worked out. Life goes on.
    The real problem is everyone thinks that the money spent is theirs and could have been spent in another way that would have made them look like geniuses.

    Reminds me of my cabbie in Vegas who moved there to make bank betting on college basketball

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  22. #29
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Here’s a hypothetical:

    Let’s say some team called the reds prior to 2021 season and said “we love Shogo. We will take his entire contract over and give you a lottery ticket” and the reds took it.

    Do you, honestly, think in that scenario the Reds would have altered their “plan” for the 2021 bullpen whatsoever?

    I think it’s very obvious they would not have and just pocketed that money as well.
    Exactly, it's a shame the player didn't work out but I'm not going to get upset about big Bob having to pay the guy to leave.
    Go Gators!

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  24. #30
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    Re: Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post

    I think it’s very obvious they would not have and just pocketed that money as well.
    Is "pocketed that money" the correct term? The Reds are cheap, no doubt. But periodically, like prior to 2020 season, they spend. It's like they look at their available money over a period of years rather than annually. Instead of unloading salaries and immediately spending it, they bank it and wait for a period of seasons of savings before unloading it again.

    The Reds strategy seems to be keeping their fans happy by putting crappy teams on the field for a period of years and then unloading the saved money to try and make them competitive for a short period of time. In this case, it looks like they are trying to stretch a period of competitiveness rather than going all in for one season.

    Last year wasn't just a feeling of generosity but more of let's unload what we've saved for the past 6 years.

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    REDREAD (07-20-2021)


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