Shogo

[TRF]

Not trying to be a jerk about it. We still have people insisting that all Shogo needs is more playing time.
We still have people saying it wasn't a colossal mess up. Have people blaming Covid and a host of other excuses.
The debate still seems to be open. What I said was not intended to be a "I told you so".
Just saying, Shogo was one of the top 3 worst FA signings of all time (for the Reds). Arguably top 2 (Milton is the other one)

I wonder how Shogo's wife is doing. Because context is a thing we should examine the context of Shogo's performance to date. Comes over and cannot be with teammates. Because 2020 sucked. Gets hurt in ST 2021, his wife was hit by a tree. Shogo's first game this year was May 7. Naquin explodes in April cementing his playing time. Now, the team has 5 OF's in April, and two were on their way to All Star Campaigns. Leaving CF to be divided by Naquin, Shogo and Senzel.

Now Shogo has been up for about 3 full months now, but his use has been sporadic. Bell seems to think Naquin today is the Naquin from April. And clearly, he is not. Shogo at least provides some defensive ability.

I'm in the camp for trading Shogo, if you can get a decent return. He might have to be a part of a larger package, but the Reds need one more SP. Ideally he goes to a West Coast team as that seems to be better culturally for him. I mean unless he just loves sausage, and honestly, who doesn't?

Then there is the matter of CF. Naquin is not really the answer, Senzel is made of glass, and there is no CF prospect on the horizon. Aquino COULD do the job, but I imagine he's the RF next year, sadly, tragically.

[REDREAD]

Well, it's like Brantley said last night.
No one cares about a player's personal life, being from another country, etc
At some point, the player has to produce.
Honestly, if Shogo was an American free agent , instead of a Japaneese one, he would not have a lot of sympathy on this board (see former acquisions Willy Tavaras, Eric Milton, and even Billy H, etc .. they didn't get any sympathy for their poor performance).. Not saying that to you TRF, just in general. Shogo is being paid a lot of money to perform and has been one of the worst position players the Reds have had in the last 20 years. I'm sure he's trying, and I blame the front office more than him, but man.. more playing time isn't going to help him.. He stinks.

[TRF]

I loathed Tavares and Milton, and think Hamilton should still be on this team. I'm not saying Shogo isn't bad. He's certainly bad right now, but he'd have caught the ball Naquin just let drop. 10 times out of 10.

The game is more than hitting and pitching.

[GAC]

I loathed Tavares and Milton, and think Hamilton should still be on this team. I'm not saying Shogo isn't bad. He's certainly bad right now, but he'd have caught the ball Naquin just let drop. 10 times out of 10.

The game is more than hitting and pitching.

You had me TRF until you said Hamilton should still be on this team.

[JFLegal]

I'm in the camp for trading Shogo, if you can get a decent return. He might have to be a part of a larger package, but the Reds need one more SP.

i think we're all in this camp. problem is, shogo has negative trade value. literally could not get another team to take him off the reds' hands for nothing due to his contract. no one wants to pay a backup, slap-hitting outfielder $7M per season (and he's owed $8M next year). not being sarcastic when i say he has negative trade value. he literally does. reds would have to give a team one of the reds' good prospects just to take shogo off the reds' hands.

[TRF]

You had me TRF until you said Hamilton should still be on this team.

Have you seen the CF defense of Naquin?

The Reds offense can afford a Hamilton like defender hitting 8th. And it is not like Naquin has been hitting the last couple of months. Hell, Hamilton way out hit him in July.

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i think we're all in this camp. problem is, shogo has negative trade value. literally could not get another team to take him off the reds' hands for nothing due to his contract. no one wants to pay a backup, slap-hitting outfielder $7M per season (and he's owed $8M next year). not being sarcastic when i say he has negative trade value. he literally does. reds would have to give a team one of the reds' good prospects just to take shogo off the reds' hands.

or eat half of his salary.

The Reds COULD do that.

[JFLegal]

Have you seen the CF defense of Naquin?

The Reds offense can afford a Hamilton like defender hitting 8th. And it is not like Naquin has been hitting the last couple of months. Hell, Hamilton way out hit him in July.

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or eat half of his salary.

The Reds COULD do that.

they would need to eat almost all of it. what would shogo be worth on the open market? $1.5M at the most? so, reds would have to eat $6.5M of his contract next year just for a team to take him off their hands.

[mth123]

Have you seen the CF defense of Naquin?

The Reds offense can afford a Hamilton like defender hitting 8th. And it is not like Naquin has been hitting the last couple of months. Hell, Hamilton way out hit him in July.

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or eat half of his salary.

The Reds COULD do that.

They would need to eat anything above the minimum and still may not find a taker. Shogo has some skills, but guys who can play OF defense and run a little bit while hittng like a pitcher are easily available in the minor leagues for cheap. There is no dofference between Shogo and guys like Ryan Lamarre, Travis Jankowski, Scott Heinemann, etc.

Billy Hamilton is basically the same player as Shogo except Hamilton is way faster, a better defender and has a plus arm compared to the wet noodle Shogo tries to throw with. The White Sox picked Hamilton up off the scrap heap for the minimum. Now a team could do the same with Ender Inciarte who is also better than Shogo at the things Shogo does well. Shogo as about as unmovable as any player in baseball IMO.

[TRF]

They would need to eat anything above the minimum and still may not find a taker. Shogo has some skills, but guys who can play OF defense and run a little bit while hittng like a pitcher are easily available in the minor leagues for cheap. There is no dofference between Shogo and guys like Ryan Lamarre, Travis Jankowski, Scott Heinemann, etc.

Billy Hamilton is basically the same player as Shogo except Hamilton is way faster, a better defender and has a plus arm compared to the wet noodle Shogo tries to throw with. The White Sox picked Hamilton up off the scrap heap for the minimum. Now a team could do the same with Ender Inciarte who is also better than Shogo at the things Shogo does well. Shogo as about as unmovable as any player in baseball IMO.

Unmovable players get dealt, and often to teams that see them as a better fit. For example, Seattle might be a good fit. They have money, and a history with Japanese players. Sometimes a player's comfort level matters, sometimes they can't overcome it. For every player that fans say "sucks" there is a Nelson Cruz/JD Martinez that says no, I really don't. No, I do not think Shogo is either of those guys. I think he might be capable of a .740 OPS with at least average defense. I know I prefer seeing him in CF over Naquin. I certainly prefer him over Senzel, as I fully expect Nick Senzel to either explode or just catch fire standing in CF.

As for the Hamilton comparison, you are saying that they are the same except Billy is better at everything?

[NatiRedGals]

Shogo needs playing time and I bet he hits better then 200 that naquin is hitting past couple of months. I hated farmer but look what he did with playing time I can't say farmer sucks anymore he's destroying the ball

[NatiRedGals]

Shogo needs playing time and I bet he hits better then 200 that naquin is hitting past couple of months. I hated farmer but look what he did with playing time I can't say farmer sucks anymore he's destroying the ball

End of last year shogo hit 300 and now he can't adjust cause he never plays bell doesn't help shogo at all and naquin isnt naquin from earlier he's bad

[mth123]

Unmovable players get dealt, and often to teams that see them as a better fit. For example, Seattle might be a good fit. They have money, and a history with Japanese players. Sometimes a player's comfort level matters, sometimes they can't overcome it. For every player that fans say "sucks" there is a Nelson Cruz/JD Martinez that says no, I really don't. No, I do not think Shogo is either of those guys. I think he might be capable of a .740 OPS with at least average defense. I know I prefer seeing him in CF over Naquin. I certainly prefer him over Senzel, as I fully expect Nick Senzel to either explode or just catch fire standing in CF.

As for the Hamilton comparison, you are saying that they are the same except Billy is better at everything?

Yes Hamiiton > Shogo at running, defense and especially thowing. Hitting is similar.

I like Shogo. Seems like a good dude, but from what I see he's a AAAA player. The kind that frequently ends up going to Japan and becoming a Star but is a fringe guy in the big leagues. The difference is Shogo has a contract, so he stays on the roster while the typical AAAA guy rides the AAA shuttle. Shogo is a player who should ride the AAA shuttle IMO.

[NatiRedGals]

Yes Hamiiton > Shogo at running, defense and especially thowing. Hitting is similar.

I like Shogo. Seems like a good dude, but from what I see he's a AAAA player. The kind that frequently ends up going to Japan and becoming a Star but is a fringe guy in the big leagues. The difference is Shogo has a contract, so he stays on the roster while the typical AAAA guy rides the AAA shuttle. Shogo is a player who should ride the AAA shuttle IMO.

Lol naquin should ride the triple aaa shuttle imo

[HokieRed]

I'm fine with Shogo taking up a roster spot for now. What I hope does not happen is that he blocks T.J. Friedl from getting a spot and a look next year.

[mth123]

Lol naquin should ride the triple aaa shuttle imo

I think Naquin has been terrible since Mid-may, but overall, I think he's a better bench player than Shogo is. Neither guy should play every day. 250 PAs is about right for Naquin. Something less than that, mostly as a double switch, defensive replacement guy seems about right for Shogo.

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I'm fine with Shogo taking up a roster spot for now. What I hope does not happen is that he blocks T.J. Friedl from getting a spot and a look next year.

I'd have Friedl up and playing CF every day right now while Cast and Senzel are hurt.