Reds Acquire Mychal Givens from Rockies for Noah Davis & Case Williams

[backbencher]

There were literally dozens of FA relief signings this off-season including some involving high priced guys. Liam Hendricks, Brad Hand, Marc Melancon. There were some trades like Iglesias. There is plenty of off-season activity in the relief market.

Most teams are not stuck in neutral waiting to see “which relievers are performing well mid season.”

Nobody forced the Reds into waiting until the deadline, if that’s your point. The Reds chose their path voluntarily. It may have cost them the playoffs, hopefully not.

The off-season Reds projected a bullpen back four of Lorenzen, Sims, Antone and Garrett. Not the Nasty Boys, not Murphy/Williams/Franco, not Sullivan/Williamson/Graves. But possibly enough, given the team's substantial outlays on hitters and a projected-to-be-good rotation. The prospects and lottery tickets were for spots 5-8 (or possibly 4-8, if Lorenzen ended up in the rotation).

The team certainly should have planned for at least one significant injury, but likely also counted on one success story from the minors or lottery tickets. Turned out much worse than that, of course - 3+ injuries and no winning tickets.

[Musketeer22]

Philadelphia could use any of the three. (They're bullpen is as bad as Cincinnati's.)

Toronto could use some help.

Seattle, Oakland, and Houston too.

None of those teams need Garrett, Brach, Doolittle or Hoffman. Trust me.

[mth123]

The Reds bullpen starting Tomorrow:

Hembree, Doolittle, Garrett, Brach Santillan, Wilson, Hoffman, Cessa and Givens. With 12 position players and 5 starters that's 26 guys. There is no one to trade and as noted above, who wants them? There isn't sufficient return coming to make it worth digging deeper into the turd pile for another reliever. The biggest reason these deals are upgrades is because it pushes Garcia, Hendrix and Osich off the roster. Why trade somebody just to keep one of them around?

[backbencher]

Philadelphia could use any of the three. (They're bullpen is as bad as Cincinnati's.)

Toronto could use some help.

Seattle, Oakland, and Houston too.

Well, let's hope you are right. Whatever the return is, it will be less than a lottery ticket A-ball pitcher Would be great to cover the PTBML to the Yankees, at least.

[Kc61]

The off-season Reds projected a bullpen back four of Lorenzen, Sims, Antone and Garrett. Not the Nasty Boys, not Murphy/Williams/Franco, not Sullivan/Williamson/Graves. But possibly enough, given the team's substantial outlays on hitters and a projected-to-be-good rotation. The prospects and lottery tickets were for spots 5-8 (or possibly 4-8, if Lorenzen ended up in the rotation).

The team certainly should have planned for at least one significant injury, but likely also counted on one success story from the minors or lottery tickets. Turned out much worse than that, of course - 3+ injuries and no winning tickets.

Lorenzen came into camp as a leading choice for fifth starter. Reds said so. I thought he would be fifth starter because Reds weren’t paying him $4.4 million to relieve.

The OD pen had Fulmer, Romano, Perez, Bedrosian. DeLeon was a starter. Doolittle is one of the few still with the team. Guys like Hembree and Brach came later.

People can form their own judgments.

[Brisco]

There were literally dozens of FA relief signings this off-season including some involving high priced guys. Liam Hendricks, Brad Hand, Marc Melancon. There were some trades like Iglesias. There is plenty of off-season activity in the relief market.

Most teams are not stuck in neutral waiting to see “which relievers are performing well mid season.”

Nobody forced the Reds into waiting until the deadline, if thatÂ’s your point. The Reds chose their path voluntarily. It may have cost them the playoffs, hopefully not.

Sure, it would be great if every time the Reds identified a need they then went out and solved that need with a FA signing or a trade.


For a small market team you need to pick your competitive years carefully. They simply do not have the resources to go all-in year after year. After last year's COVID fiasco killing the reds 'all-in' attempt and the loss of the cy young winner, it is totally understandable that the Reds did not make a big investment in this year with the limited info they had in the off-season. They probably fully expected to be sellers at the deadline and they probably did not believe one or two bullpen arms would be enough to make the difference.

I get that competitively they could have used the arms earlier and we would be in a far more optimistic situation, but that is with the benefit of hindsight. It could have just as easily turned out that the 5-10 million they might have spent to help the team in the offseason was throwing good money after bad and kept them from winning not just this year but next as well.

Given their competitive disadvantage organizationally, i am fine with them being a bit more conservative than the fan base.

[klw]

Mychal Givens
@MychalGivens
·
1h

Reds fans here I came super excited @Reds let's do this #bigredmachine #rednation #bigred

[Kc61]

Sure, it would be great if every time the Reds identified a need they then went out and solved that need with a FA signing or a trade.


For a small market team you need to pick your competitive years carefully. They simply do not have the resources to go all-in year after year. After last year's COVID fiasco killing the reds 'all-in' attempt and the loss of the cy young winner, it is totally understandable that the Reds did not make a big investment in this year with the limited info they had in the off-season. They probably fully expected to be sellers at the deadline and they probably did not believe one or two bullpen arms would be enough to make the difference.

I get that competitively they could have used the arms earlier and we would be in a far more optimistic situation, but that is with the benefit of hindsight. It could have just as easily turned out that the 5-10 million they might have spent to help the team in the offseason was throwing good money after bad and kept them from winning not just this year but next as well.

Given their competitive disadvantage organizationally, i am fine with them being a bit more conservative than the fan base.

The Reds chose to make their salary cuts in the bullpen. Nobody required that. The issues that presented aren’t hindsight. Most fans saw it, just read the discussions here and in the media.

The Reds presented themselves as trying to win. Even with financial limitations they still asked for fans’ time and interest. They are not in a rebuild as in 2015-18. One expects them to put their best foot forward.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Mychal Givens
@MychalGivens
·
1h

Reds fans here I came super excited @Reds let's do this #bigredmachine #rednation #bigred

Two possible jokes here:
1. Well, that's it. He's already out of town. What a horrid trade!

2. Family board!

[backbencher]

The Reds chose to make their salary cuts in the bullpen. Nobody required that. The issues that presented aren’t hindsight. Most fans saw it, just read the discussions here and in the media.

Eh, looking at the offseason in hindsight, I see the Reds as needing to shave $10-$25 million, gauging interest on all of Moustakas, Gray, Iglesias, Castillo (maybe/maybe not Suarez, Castellanos and Winker), and then concluding that only an Iglesias deal was palatable from a return and competition standpoint.

[Kc61]

Eh, looking at the offseason in hindsight, I see the Reds as needing to shave $10-$25 million, gauging interest on all of Moustakas, Gray, Iglesias, Castillo (maybe/maybe not Suarez, Castellanos and Winker), and then concluding that only an Iglesias deal was palatable from a return and competition standpoint.

Not sure of the evidence that Iglesias was the only move in town; or that Reds couldn't have made other moves thereafter to re-stock the bullpen.

Indeed, Iglesias was traded December 7, early in a late breaking off-season. Not sure we know that Reds had fully gauged interest on others by then, other rumors continued thereafter. Reds also dropped reliever Bradley, which may reveal some of the team's thinking on the salary cuts.

But we've been discussing this for months, it's more productive to talk about the new acquisitions.

[KeefeCato]

Givens won't be activated till tomorrows game.

[backbencher]

Not sure of the evidence that Iglesias was the only move in town; or that Reds couldn't have made other moves thereafter to re-stock the bullpen.

Indeed, Iglesias was traded December 7, early in a late breaking off-season. Not sure we know that Reds had (or could have) fully gauged interest on others by then. Reds also dropped reliever Bradley, which may reveal some of the team's thinking on the salary cuts.

But we've been discussing this for months, it's more productive to talk about the new acquisitions.

Let me rephrase: I think that the Reds needed to shave payroll, and that the markets for all other significant contracts were non-existent or unpalatable.

Certainly could and should have restocked later.

[membengal]

Givens and Brach. Getting the 2017 Orioles pen back together, piece by piece.

[REDREAD]

The off-season sees many times more player movement than the trade deadline.

Yea, I am very thankful the Reds have traded for relief help. It will make the rest of the season more fun.
But I largely think Reds' ownership was pressured to do this, it was not in the plan.. The team played so well, and there was articles from people like Daughtery, etc .. They made these trades so they wouldn't look like the cheapos we assumed they would be.. They could have definitely made these deals in the offseason, instead of trying to collect guys like C Perez and the other scraps that other teams gave up on. I guess if we are lucky, Krall and ownership realize that the pen is actually important in future seasons? That you can't just throw a bunch of AAA rejects in there and expect good results.
Anyhow, good work by Krall.. Is it too late? Maybe, but at least the rest of the season will be a lot more entertaining instead of frustrating.