Would You Rather?

[Griffey012]

So the Reds saved roughly $8M I believe by trading Iglesias for nothing and signing some bullpen arms. The Reds have added roughly $4M in salaries between Givens, Cessa, and Wilson (someone correct me if I’m wrong). Let’s say the Reds make another move adding a big acquisition and add another $4M in salary, knowing what you know this season would you rather:

1) Have had Iglesias all year and make no moves
2) Add the pieces at the deadline

[mth123]

I'd have rather had Iglesias. All those games they've blown earlier in the year can't be made up.

[GAC]

I thought the issue with Iglesaias was his inconsistency at closer and blowing games?

[klw]

I'd rather they not waited 7 months to use the money.

[Griffey012]

I'd have rather had Iglesias. All those games they've blown earlier in the year can't be made up.

Between injuries and ineffectiveness of the rest of the bullpen, I think it is fair to wonder if an effective 9th inning closer would have had all that much of an impact on the Reds pen. Certainly it would be better than without, but the Reds bullpen has been such a train wreck, they usually blow the game before the 9th inning save opp. The Reds blown saves are as follows, many of which have not been the end of game save chance we typically think about with blown saves.

Antone 4
Garrett 4
Doolittle 3
Brach 2
Sims 2
Osich 2
Hembree 1
Hendrix 1
Garcia 1

[mth123]

Between injuries and ineffectiveness of the rest of the bullpen, I think it is fair to wonder if an effective 9th inning closer would have had all that much of an impact on the Reds pen. Certainly it would be better than without, but the Reds bullpen has been such a train wreck, they usually blow the game before the 9th inning save opp. The Reds blown saves are as follows, many of which have not been the end of game save chance we typically think about with blown saves.

Antone 4
Garrett 4
Doolittle 3
Brach 2
Sims 2
Osich 2
Hembree 1
Hendrix 1
Garcia 1

If you have a closer, the other better guys could be used properly. The Reds mis-used Garrett for half a season and I'm convinced its at the heart of his struggles. Antone was saved for late in the game too many times while other turds blew the game. I'm a believer in a pecking order in the pen. These guys are specialists, otherwise, they'd be starters. Specialist need to be used properly to be effective. Having a clear closer makes that so much easier. This team spent a lot of the season trying to hammer nails with a screwdriver and blaming the screwdriver when the nail didn't hold or ended up bent.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Iglesias I’m sure could have probably netted a few wins. But he alone could not have covered many of the BP failures which have occurred in the 7th and 8th. See Monday. Still need “holders” with ERA’s under 5.00.

Antone’s injury just made it go from bad to worse. I haven’t done a deep dive that some of our illustrious stat posters do, but I think most of the Reds blown leads have been before the 9th.

And as I hit send, Griff is there with the data!

[foster15]

I guess it's not all about this season. The Reds bullpen was shaky last season and Iggy was a main reason for that. If the Reds keep these 3 guys they just traded past 2021, maybe this season was all about tryouts for the future to build a more stable bullpen. If we take our two or three most trusted BP arms from what we've had to use the past few months and move them all back a few spots in favor of Antone, Sims, Lorenzen and the 3 new ones, maybe we have a strong BP starting next season.

I think the chances are very slim that the moves made the past few days don't became a case of too little too late. If the 2021 bullpen debacle doesn't serve to make us much stronger starting in 2022 than it's been nothing but a waste of a season with these 3 additions being nothing but window dressing.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Between The Reds blown saves are as follows, many of which have not been the end of game save chance we typically think about with blown saves.

Antone 4
Garrett 4
Doolittle 3
Brach 2
Sims 2
Osich 2
Hembree 1
Hendrix 1
Garcia 1

I’m curious how many net games or net losses that really is. That is 20 blown saves total if my ciphering is correct.

Some will be comback wins. Other are going to be double dips when 2 or more relievers had a blown save.

[wlf WV]

The point is not what they did with Iglesaias, whether we agree about it or not, but the procrastination to address the lack of bullpen after the injuries. Anyone with a brain knew it and why do anything about it now.

If the front office is looking towards the future, they should have kept what pitching they had and sorted it out along the way, like they’re doing too late.

[Griffey012]

I’m curious how many net games or net losses that really is. That is 20 blown saves total if my ciphering is correct.

Some will be comback wins. Other are going to be double dips when 2 or more relievers had a blown save.

Currently 2021 Reds relief pitchers have 15 Losses on the back of their baseball cards.

[Kc61]

The Reds bullpen was shaky last season and Iggy was a main reason for that. .

If you mean 2020, this is incorrect, as reflected by the stats. If you mean the last full season, 2019, I would agree.

Iggy is a free agent, so right now I would rather have the two controllable guys Reds just acquired. I’m hoping they can help in 2022.

But the Reds are currently in a hole for the playoffs. So for 2021 purposes, Iggy (or a good replacement) from Opening Day would have been better.

[reds44]

I'd have rather had Iglesias. All those games they've blown earlier in the year can't be made up.

Are we assuming Iglesias was going to pitch every bullpen inning of every game the reds had a lead in?

[foster15]

Currently 2021 Reds relief pitchers have 15 Losses on the back of their baseball cards.

There's really no way you can equate it to a number of losses that would've turned into wins. Reason being is that a blown save yesterday could be a direct reason for a bad bullpen performance today. Say a starter leaves the game in the 6th with a 1-0 lead. 1st guy out of the pen holds it. 2nd guy out of pen holds it, 3rd guy out of pen gives up 4 runs. Next day, Reds have 4-1 lead going into 8th. 1st two guys out of pen yesterday need to be used again and are not even close to as effective in 2nd game in two days. So they had one good day and one bad day and that turned into two losses and if we keep going, it could turn into 3 or 4 losses. Now, if your starter leaves losing by one run, and the bullpen gives up 6 runs while your team adds 4 runs, your starter gets the loss but the bullpen lost the game.

[reds44]

The Reds could have kept Iglesias and if Amir was still booty and Lorenzen, Antone, and Sims still all missed extended periods of times the bullpen would have still been terrible.

Acting like the Iglesias trade is the only reason the bullpen is bad isn’t fair