Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

[Kc61]

I'm not saying he's an All Star. Atlanta has Acuna to play CF and needed the roster spots to bring in bats for the corners when their regulars got hurt (and they have two elite CF prospects in Pache and Waters ready to join the team at any time), so they cut bait on Inciarte who really has no future in Atlanta contract or not.

That has nothing to do with the Reds situation. The Reds have four guys who have gotten time in CF. Naquin shouldn't be playing there and hasn't hit since May. Aquino actually looks better than expected there, but he's not a CF and probably isn't an option against RHP. Shogo is OK out there, but his range is a little short, his arm is more suited to LF and he can't hit at all. Senzel is the best defender but that just means he's average compared to a bunch of guys who are below average. Senzel hasn't hit as a big leaguer and can't stay healthy, so I don't think he's an every day option in CF. Inciarte isn't going to hit much. We know that going in, but its not even a noticeable drop-off from the other guys who don't hit either and its a very noticeable improvement on the defensive side. With Farmer's improvement and Moose and Cast returning, the Reds will get offense from the other 7 positions and have been scoring plenty of runs without Cast and Moose, they can afford a position devoted to defense at a key spot. Especially when the more offensive minded alternatives don't really provide much offense anyway.

If the Reds had a good CF, I wouldn't want any part of Inciarte, but he'd be a way better option than anyone the Reds are putting out there, as would other defense first guys like Billy Hamilton, Kevin Pillar, Jake Marisnick, etc. I guess I just prefer lousy offense and good defense as opposed to lousy offense and mediocre defense. I've been ready for a change in CF. I suggested calling up Friedl before the All Star break to try and get some improvement there. Next year, I'd see if Farmer can play there with Barrero at SS. The in house options are terrible.

Acuna is out for the season with an ACL. The very same season for which Inciarte was still signed. Yet Braves chose to eat millions of remaining dollars on his salary/buy out and cut him loose. No trade, just DFA.

It doesn’t suggest a very good player at this stage. Which is why the Reds sent him to the minors. If he was a “way better option” the Reds would have brought him immediately to the major leagues.

Unless someone has intensively followed the player this year and vouches for him, I’ll trust the Braves who cut him and the Reds who sent him to AAA. If he still has it, he can try to prove it there.

[TRF]

So the Reds will likely use the max time allowed for Senzel's IL stint. Then they will activate him. He'll get an uber to the park and tear a pectoral muscle getting out of the car.

Probably.

Best case is Senzel has an option. The Reds should use it, because he has not proven he's earned a MLB roster spot. Baseball is a meritocracy. Senzel is not getting 2B back from India. So that leaves 2 positions: 3B or CF. He's not very good at CF, he might be good at 3B, but the Reds have a couple of options ahead of him. Honestly, he probably should not be back with the Reds this year, and dealt in the off season.

See, it does not matter if Senzel leaves and becomes great(healthy). He just doesn't have a spot right now in Cincinnati.

[Kc61]

So the Reds will likely use the max time allowed for Senzel's IL stint. Then they will activate him. He'll get an uber to the park and tear a pectoral muscle getting out of the car.

Probably.

Best case is Senzel has an option. The Reds should use it, because he has not proven he's earned a MLB roster spot. Baseball is a meritocracy. Senzel is not getting 2B back from India. So that leaves 2 positions: 3B or CF. He's not very good at CF, he might be good at 3B, but the Reds have a couple of options ahead of him. Honestly, he probably should not be back with the Reds this year, and dealt in the off season.

See, it does not matter if Senzel leaves and becomes great(healthy). He just doesn't have a spot right now in Cincinnati.

I disagree on Senzel, but am concerned that his knee recovery may limit him for the rest of the season. I remember when Jay Bruce came back quickly from knee surgery, and it hampered him. Not sure how much Nick can add in 2021.

[RedTeamGo!]

So the Reds will likely use the max time allowed for Senzel's IL stint. Then they will activate him. He'll get an uber to the park and tear a pectoral muscle getting out of the car.

Probably.

Best case is Senzel has an option. The Reds should use it, because he has not proven he's earned a MLB roster spot. Baseball is a meritocracy. Senzel is not getting 2B back from India. So that leaves 2 positions: 3B or CF. He's not very good at CF, he might be good at 3B, but the Reds have a couple of options ahead of him. Honestly, he probably should not be back with the Reds this year, and dealt in the off season.

See, it does not matter if Senzel leaves and becomes great(healthy). He just doesn't have a spot right now in Cincinnati.

Senzel is solid defensively in CF, though. You are just hand waving that position away, but that’s his position.

[VR]

It's a flyer. Gennett and Dietrich were flyers too. Maybe catch lighting in a bottle for a short period with an experienced vet.

[westofyou]

Senzel is solid defensively in CF, though. You are just hand waving that position away, but that’s his position.

Ender is 30, Ender is from Venezuela, maybe he's coming in to caddy to Geno in September

[mth123]

So the Reds will likely use the max time allowed for Senzel's IL stint. Then they will activate him. He'll get an uber to the park and tear a pectoral muscle getting out of the car.

Probably.

Best case is Senzel has an option. The Reds should use it, because he has not proven he's earned a MLB roster spot. Baseball is a meritocracy. Senzel is not getting 2B back from India. So that leaves 2 positions: 3B or CF. He's not very good at CF, he might be good at 3B, but the Reds have a couple of options ahead of him. Honestly, he probably should not be back with the Reds this year, and dealt in the off season.

See, it does not matter if Senzel leaves and becomes great(healthy). He just doesn't have a spot right now in Cincinnati.

I don't know about dealing him unless they can get a return, but I completely agree that he should be optioned when his rehab stint is over. He can be a Sept 1 add.

[Tom Servo]

Senzel is solid defensively in CF, though. You are just hand waving that position away, but that’s his position.

That's where any argument for Inciarte really falls apart to me. Senzel isn't Willie Mays out there but he's far superior to Naquin, which is really what the heart of this debate is about. If he's healthy (obviously a big if) he should be playing CF most days, because even with his anemic slash line for 20-21 it's still way better, both in results and potential results, than both Inciarte and Shogo.

[StRedlegs900]

That's where any argument for Inciarte really falls apart to me. Senzel isn't Willie Mays out there but he's far superior to Naquin, which is really what the heart of this debate is about. If he's healthy (obviously a big if) he should be playing CF most days, because even with his anemic slash line for 20-21 it's still way better, both in results and potential results, than both Inciarte and Shogo.

Basically this. The only argument I've seen for Senzel not in CF with any merit is the idea that maybe he's more prone to injury there. But fact of the matter is that there isn't any other place to play where his potential could be utilized at this point. Might as well roll the dice and pray that he stays healthy. He's absolutely fine enough defensively there, and has enough offensive upside that he's the best option if he's physically able to run onto the field.

[MikeS21]

For a guy who never played the OF until three years ago ... and lost a half season due to pandemic shut-down, I think Senzel has done extremely well in CF. I also think it might be a reach to blame his health issues on the position.

Having said that, it is also obvious that the main reason for Senzel's offensive woes is that he can't stay in the lineup long enough to get into any kind of groove. We have seen first-hand what playing everyday can do for a guy as we have watched India progress. Senzel would make the same kind of progress if he could only stay in the lineup for an extended time.

[TRF]

Senzel has not hit with any real success since AAA in 2018. He's missed significant time in every pro season since 2018, while missing time with various ailments since he signed in 2016.

I really don't mind eating crow, but the Reds' success does not hinge on Nick Senzel. Especially if next year up the middle features India at 2B Barrero at SS. The rotation might include Hunter Greene as the 5th SP. I like the immediate future. I don't like the idea of the Reds not optioning Senzel this year.

As for Ender, it's nice to give him a chance to showcase himself for a month. Someone may need him, maybe even the Reds.

I'd option Senzel, play him at 3B everyday in Louisville. IMO he's 4th on the depth chart behind Suarez, Moose and Lopez.

[TRF]

For a guy who never played the OF until three years ago ... and lost a half season due to pandemic shut-down, I think Senzel has done extremely well in CF. I also think it might be a reach to blame his health issues on the position.

Having said that, it is also obvious that the main reason for Senzel's offensive woes is that he can't stay in the lineup long enough to get into any kind of groove. We have seen first-hand what playing everyday can do for a guy as we have watched India progress. Senzel would make the same kind of progress if he could only stay in the lineup for an extended time.

2019: 104 games, 375 AB's .256 .315 .427 .742

Does not make me all tingly.

[MikeS21]

2019: 104 games, 375 AB's .256 .315 .427 .742

Does not make me all tingly.

For a rookie getting his first taste of major league pitching, it's passable. The more concerning line ought to be the fact that Senzel only has 616 PA's in THREE seasons. Most starters get that many PA's in ONE season. He can't stay in the lineup long enough to lift those meh numbers.

[REDREAD]

Shogo will hit AAA pitching just fine and it will be meaningless. He’s a veteran and he’s being challenged by tough MLB pitching. AAA would do nothing for him.

His walk rate is way down, but he’s not swinging more out of the zone. So it probably means the pitchers are throwing strikes because they know he won’t do much damage.

He just has to keep making contact, hopefully the BABIP improves, and he can then contribute more.

Well, you might be right.. But there's people that say "if only Shogo would get consistent playing time, he'd find a groove".
I think it would be worth a try, honestly.. What do the Reds have to lose? Maybe if he plays the rest of the AAA season he'll get enough reps with his revamped swing for us to see some improvement (Reds changed his swing when he came to America, according to broadcasters.. they asked him to try to drive the ball instead of basically running out of the box as he swung -- that's my paraphrase).. Maybe some time at AAA won't make a difference. I guess I figure there's nothing to lose. Incartie is probably a better defender than Shogo, and probably at least as good of a hitter.