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Thread: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

  1. #31
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    The reds don't have anyone who can play CF who can hit.
    Only if one adopts small sample numbers to make a point.

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  4. #32
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Only if one adopts small sample numbers to make a point.
    I hope Senzel will get better as well, but the team is in a pennant race and now is no time to experiment. I'd take advantage of the known quantity and go with the stellar defender. Senzel has had 616 big league PAs and at no time has he been close to average offensively. His Career OPS+ is 77. Its 65 this year and was 54 last year. He doesn't hold up playing every day and he has the versatility to get 3 or 4 starts per week at multiple positions. Give him a day at 3B, a day at 2B a day in CF and use him off the bench as a PH or double switch guy the rest of the time. Once Senzel is removed from the equation, Inciarte is the clear best choice. Aquino and Naquin are not really adequate in CF and Inciarte is superior to Shogo in all areas including offense (and he's 3 years younger to boot). Shogo's OPS+ is 40. Inciarte is a much better defender, a faster runner and has a way better arm. I think it's a no brainer. Shogo down, Inciarte up.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  5. #33
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I hope Senzel will get better as well, but the team is in a pennant race and now is no time to experiment. I'd take advantage of the known quantity and go with the stellar defender. Senzel has had 616 big league PAs and at no time has he been close to average offensively. His Career OPS+ is 77. Its 65 this year and was 54 last year. He doesn't hold up playing every day and he has the versatility to get 3 or 4 starts per week at multiple positions. Give him a day at 3B, a day at 2B a day in CF and use him off the bench as a PH or double switch guy the rest of the time. Once Senzel is removed from the equation, Inciarte is the clear best choice. Aquino and Naquin are not really adequate in CF and Inciarte is superior to Shogo in all areas including offense (and he's 3 years younger to boot). Shogo's OPS+ is 40. Inciarte is a much better defender, a faster runner and has a way better arm. I think it's a no brainer. Shogo down, Inciarte up.
    Every new player is an “experiment” including Inciarte at this stage of his career.

    Reds will continue as is except Senzel will be added as utility. He’s coming off a knee injury so probably won’t play every day.

    I could see Inciarte joining later in the season as an additional backup if there’s an opening. He might help in certain stadiums. But I don’t believe Reds will change the current set up for now.

  6. #34
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Every new player is an “experiment” including Inciarte at this stage of his career.

    Reds will continue as is except Senzel will be added as utility. He’s coming off a knee injury so probably won’t play every day.

    I could see Inciarte joining later in the season as an additional backup if there’s an opening. He might help in certain stadiums. But I don’t believe Reds will change the current set up for now.
    I agree they won't change, but it isn't because they are going with the better player. It will be because of the $7 Million guarantee to Shogo in 2022. Inciarte is not an experiment in CF. He's a known, established gold glove caliber CF. Nobody else getting PT there is an established anything on either offense or defense.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I agree they won't change, but it isn't because they are going with the better player. It will be because of the $7 Million guarantee to Shogo in 2022. Inciarte is not an experiment in CF. He's a known, established gold glove caliber CF. Nobody else getting PT there is an established anything on either offense or defense.
    Inciarte had an $8.7 million contract plus $1 million buyout. The Braves ate the remaining portion of that contract to release him. Why?

    Why couldn’t they trade him? Presumably they would have provided some cash for the accepting team. It’s post-deadline, they must have tried.

    Have to be careful about players - years after their successful seasons - cut by their current teams despite a remaining salary obligation. Wouldn’t make assumptions about his performance level.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-06-2021 at 10:25 AM.

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  10. #36
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by KeefeCato View Post
    Doubt he gets called up. Unless there is many injures. Can only add two players in Sept. now. Unless they just cut bait with Shogo. Doubt that happens still owed money through next season.
    You're probably right. I wish the front office could just admit Shogo is a mistake though, and cut him and bring up Incairte. We're trying to get to the playoffs, every little positive tweak that can be done, should be done. More than likely Incairte is emergency depth that will only be called up in the event of an injury. Incairte is OPSing about 50 points higher than Shogo (both not everyday players of course, but more of an FYI, as bad of a hitter that Incairte is, he's done better than Shogo)
    Nick Krall is a clown. This franchise is a laughingstock.

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  11. #37
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Only if one adopts small sample numbers to make a point.
    Well, I have not seen Incairte in a long time.. but I have seen enough of Shogo to know that he's not getting better, no matter how much playing time he gets.
    A lot of the Shogo supporters say that he needs regular playing time to get into a groove.. Why not send him to AAA to get some playing time.. Maybe something clicks down there that improves his hitting. Earlier in the season, someone on the broadcast said that the Reds changed Shogo's batting stance in an attempt to generate more power.. I Don't remember all the details, but it's not working.. Maybe AAA gives Shogo a chance to try to figure something out or make an adjustment.
    Nick Krall is a clown. This franchise is a laughingstock.

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Well, I have not seen Incairte in a long time.. but I have seen enough of Shogo to know that he's not getting better, no matter how much playing time he gets.
    A lot of the Shogo supporters say that he needs regular playing time to get into a groove.. Why not send him to AAA to get some playing time.. Maybe something clicks down there that improves his hitting. Earlier in the season, someone on the broadcast said that the Reds changed Shogo's batting stance in an attempt to generate more power.. I Don't remember all the details, but it's not working.. Maybe AAA gives Shogo a chance to try to figure something out or make an adjustment.
    Shogo will hit AAA pitching just fine and it will be meaningless. He’s a veteran and he’s being challenged by tough MLB pitching. AAA would do nothing for him.

    His walk rate is way down, but he’s not swinging more out of the zone. So it probably means the pitchers are throwing strikes because they know he won’t do much damage.

    He just has to keep making contact, hopefully the BABIP improves, and he can then contribute more.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-06-2021 at 11:21 AM.

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  14. #39
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Inciarte had an $8.7 million contract plus $1 million buyout. The Braves ate the remaining portion of that contract to release him. Why?

    Why couldn’t they trade him? Presumably they would have provided some cash for the accepting team. It’s post-deadline, they must have tried.

    Have to be careful about players - years after their successful seasons - cut by their current teams despite a remaining salary obligation. Wouldn’t make assumptions about his performance level.
    I'm not saying he's an All Star. Atlanta has Acuna to play CF and needed the roster spots to bring in bats for the corners when their regulars got hurt (and they have two elite CF prospects in Pache and Waters ready to join the team at any time), so they cut bait on Inciarte who really has no future in Atlanta contract or not.

    That has nothing to do with the Reds situation. The Reds have four guys who have gotten time in CF. Naquin shouldn't be playing there and hasn't hit since May. Aquino actually looks better than expected there, but he's not a CF and probably isn't an option against RHP. Shogo is OK out there, but his range is a little short, his arm is more suited to LF and he can't hit at all. Senzel is the best defender but that just means he's average compared to a bunch of guys who are below average. Senzel hasn't hit as a big leaguer and can't stay healthy, so I don't think he's an every day option in CF. Inciarte isn't going to hit much. We know that going in, but its not even a noticeable drop-off from the other guys who don't hit either and its a very noticeable improvement on the defensive side. With Farmer's improvement and Moose and Cast returning, the Reds will get offense from the other 7 positions and have been scoring plenty of runs without Cast and Moose, they can afford a position devoted to defense at a key spot. Especially when the more offensive minded alternatives don't really provide much offense anyway.

    If the Reds had a good CF, I wouldn't want any part of Inciarte, but he'd be a way better option than anyone the Reds are putting out there, as would other defense first guys like Billy Hamilton, Kevin Pillar, Jake Marisnick, etc. I guess I just prefer lousy offense and good defense as opposed to lousy offense and mediocre defense. I've been ready for a change in CF. I suggested calling up Friedl before the All Star break to try and get some improvement there. Next year, I'd see if Farmer can play there with Barrero at SS. The in house options are terrible.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Inciarte is a fantastic defender in CF. The reds haven't had a CF all season. If you are going to give a roster spot to a guy who is a defensive replacement and speed option while hitting like a pitcher, why not give it to a guy who is a top notch defender and faster runner. Inciarte is better than Shogo at the stuff Shogo is actually good at.

    I'd add Inciarte to the Roster before adding Senzel back.
    I wouldn't waste an August roster spot on a glove only guy in a bandbox like GAB.

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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I wouldn't waste an August roster spot on a glove only guy in a bandbox like GAB.
    Then cut Shogo and bring up Barrero or Lopez or Schrock.

    My gripe is that the Reds are wasting a spot on a defense only guy and he isn't really that good of a defender. His range is a little short and his arm is below average and Senzel's .638 OPS says he's basically a defense only guy himself at this point.

    I think its a given that spots will be wasted on that. If so, lets at least waste it on the best defensive player available.
    Last edited by mth123; 08-06-2021 at 11:58 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I wouldn't waste an August roster spot on a glove only guy in a bandbox like GAB.
    If Senzel comes back healthy, an OF of Winker/Senzel/Cast/Aquino/Naquin is very balanced. Not much room for the glove-only types, I think I'd rather have Naquin who can still hit the ball pretty hard when he connects. I would send Shogo down to AAA and if Senzel gets hurt you bring up Ender to finish off the season.

    The infield is Moose/Farmer/India/Votto with Suarez and one of Freeman/Schrock/Barrero on the bench.

    That's a very good positional side of a roster.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Then cut Shogo and bring up Barrero or Lopez or Schrock.
    Relax, man. They probably will.

  21. #43
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Unorthodox signing. Intriguing.
    May the Lord bless

  22. #44
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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Then cut Shogo and bring up Barrero or Lopez or Schrock.

    My gripe is that the Reds are wasting a spot on a defense only guy and he isn't really that good of a defender. His range is a little short and his arm is below average and Senzel's .638 OPS says he's basically a defense only guy himself at this point.

    I think its a given that spots will be wasted on that. If so, lets at least waste it on the best defensive player available.
    I'm not here to talk about Shogo, that's a different story with different data points. This is a ML signing of a guy who is thirty, hasn't played regularly since 2018, has no slugging skills and is known solely for his glove. In no way do I give him a roster spot in August.
    Last edited by westofyou; 08-06-2021 at 12:59 PM.

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    Re: Reds sign Ender Inciarte to minor league deal

    I’ve seen way too much of Inciarte.

    At best, he’s Billy Hamilton in the batters box but without Billy’s speed.

    Best role for him now is as Crash Davis. Run down balls in the OF in minor leagues games while good young arms try to make the jump to AAA.


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