2022

[Bourgeois Zee]

I’d like to see the Reds try to get much better. Become a top contender. Go for 100 wins in 2022. Run away with the Central.

These 2022 threads assume the same team and then you fill holes and obvious needs. Promote good kids.

All fine, but I hope Reds are more pro-active and look for ways to get even better. There will be financial limitations, but some salary will be departing, and Reds could always trade some salary. Maybe increase payroll.

The pitching and defense have improved over the season but go for “top drawer.” There aren’t that many pitchers on the team who are “musts” for 2022, try to upgrade. If Cast leaves, rearrange OF to be better defensively.

Go for it.

Well, sure. Duh.

But that's rarely if ever been the off-season plan for the Reds.

I mean, I wish I could win the lottery too, you know?

[Bourgeois Zee]

miley can't opt out. it's a team option.

I think it's clear by the discussion and tone of the post that it meant the Reds wouldn't exercise their team option. Similar with Barnhart.

I suspect it'll be a choice of:

1. Run it back with a similar group including Barnhart and Miley. Castellanos signs elsewhere.
2. Drop one of Miley or Barnhart, put that money in the bullpen. Castellanos signs elsewhere.
3. Sign Castellanos and some pen guys, but lose Barnhart and Miley.
4. Drop Miley, Barnhart, Givens, Lorenzen, and Castellanos, but add others (Conforto, Familia, Vazquez, for example) in their place.

The good news is that they probably won't need to focus on high-dollar starting pitching. The infield is pretty much set in stone too.

If they want to compete, they'll need at least one OF and a bunch of bullpen help.

[Kc61]

Well, sure. Duh.

But that's rarely if ever been the off-season plan for the Reds.

I mean, I wish I could win the lottery too, you know?

Reds have talent, a good farm, a relatively modest payroll. Good coaching, currently winning. I can’t think of a better time to try and reach the top.

It’s sad if the club doesn’t have that goal; or if fans have given up on that goal. I haven’t.

And it wouldn’t require “winning the lottery.” Reds are in position to achieve this, or come close. But the goal must be there first.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Reds have talent, a good farm, a relatively modest payroll. Good coaching, currently winning. I can’t think of a better time to try and reach the top.

I'm in full agreement.

Based on the history of this franchise and these owners, I suspect they'll cheap out.

Speaking of money, how much do you think it would take to put them in the conversation for National League co-favorites?

[PuffyPig]

I think it's clear by the discussion and tone of the post that it meant the Reds wouldn't exercise their team option. Similar with Barnhart.

I suspect it'll be a choice of:

1. Run it back with a similar group including Barnhart and Miley. Castellanos signs elsewhere.
2. Drop one of Miley or Barnhart, put that money in the bullpen. Castellanos signs elsewhere.
3. Sign Castellanos and some pen guys, but lose Barnhart and Miley.
4. Drop Miley, Barnhart, Givens, Lorenzen, and Castellanos, but add others (Conforto, Familia, Vazquez, for example) in their place.

The good news is that they probably won't need to focus on high-dollar starting pitching. The infield is pretty much set in stone too.

If they want to compete, they'll need at least one OF and a bunch of bullpen help.

The Feds will exercise options on Miley and Barnhart.

Barnhart may well be traded as they can save some money and get a pretty good prospect for him. Likely a very good bullpen arm or two. Catchers like Barnhart have real value.


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[Bourgeois Zee]

The Feds will exercise options on Miley and Barnhart.

Barnhart may well be traded as they can save some money and get a pretty good prospect for him. Likely a very good bullpen arm or two. Catcher like Barnhart have real value.

When was the last time the Reds made, essentially, a sign-and-trade deal?

[Kc61]

I'm in full agreement.

Based on the history of this franchise and these owners, I suspect they'll cheap out.

Speaking of money, how much do you think it would take to put them in the conversation for National League co-favorites?

They’d need money for (IMO) another top starting pitcher, a good outfielder, and closer. But they’d be able to subtract several contracts too via trade or whatever. If they got back to $150 million range and could find some helpful trades, I think they could get there.

Reds would also be helped by using Barrero and Greene, Santillan, and (maybe later) Lodolo instead of some salaried guys. That would help make room for veteran upgrades,

[RiverRat13]

When was the last time the Reds made, essentially, a sign-and-trade deal?

When was the last time they had team options on guys who had value and also were expendable? Don't get me wrong, I tend to agree with you that it is unlikely they do it with either player. But I can't think of a chance they've had to do it, either.

They are going to need Miley or a Miley-like veteran if they are serious about 2022. Letting him go and just penciling in the two rookies into the rotation knowing that both are prime shutdown-in-September candidates due to how few innings they've thrown is a huge risk.

[Mitri]

The Feds will exercise options on Miley and Barnhart.

Barnhart may well be traded as they can save some money and get a pretty good prospect for him. Likely a very good bullpen arm or two. Catchers like Barnhart have real value.


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Yeah, I think they end up trading Barnhart and getting a cheaper backup catcher. I think they'll want to churn some of the roster and Barnhart is the easy move.

I would keep the SP and core relief group (Antone/Sims/Cessa/Wilson/Santillan) intact. Pick up Miley's option. Try and extend Givens. Lorenzen is out. Garrett is out. Keep Vlad as the cheap swingman until Greene/Lodolo are ready. Clearly there is a need to invest in some real bullpen upgrades to avoid the disaster was saw in the first half.

Obviously, the OF is the biggest question mark of 2022. Castellanos will likely bounce, but you never know. I could see the Reds negotiating a deal to keep him in town, and then fill the rest of the outfield with cheap guys like Friedl/Aquino/Senzel. Naquin should be out. Not sure what they'll do with Shogo. If Castellanos leaves they need to replace him with a big corner bat.

[RedTeamGo!]

If Lorenzen performs solidly down the stretch I wouldn’t be surprised if he stays one more year on a 1 year “show me” contract

[Mitri]

If Lorenzen performs solidly down the stretch I wouldn’t be surprised if he stays one more year on a 1 year “show me” contract

Givens and Lorenzen on 1-year deals would be great. Not sure what Wilson is doing, but my assumption is that he'll pick up his player option and pitch with the Reds next year.

[Bourgeois Zee]

They’d need money for (IMO) another top starting pitcher, a good outfielder, and closer. But they’d be able to subtract several contracts too via trade or whatever. If they got back to $150 million range and could find some helpful trades, I think they could get there.

Reds would also be helped by using Barrero and Greene, Santillan, and (maybe later) Lodolo instead of some salaried guys. That would help make room for veteran upgrades,

So we're talking about $25M plus whatever they can trade.

I'm not sure they get that laundry list of needs without getting rid of salary.

Dealing Gray would probably mean adding two starters. Ditto Castillo. And I'm fairly sure no one is going to deal for Suarez, Votto, or Moustakas-- unless, of course, they have salary they're trying to unload as well.

[brian5562]

I think Guit has earned a shot at being part of the 5 man.

[WrongVerb]

I'm just going to toss this out for next season:

2b Farmer
SS Barrero
CF India

What say you?

[CaiGuy]

I'm just going to toss this out for next season:

2b Farmer
SS Barrero
CF India

What say you?

Nah, I don't think this is the new Farmer. I would go off of his season numbers.

Farmer to UTL, MI of India/Barrero, get a real CF and not another converted 3B.