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Thread: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

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    Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Every now and then Iíll think about this question and wonder if anyone knows anything about it. Iíve tried to get guy like Lance to talk about it but to my knowledge, nobody ever has. It starts with that epic fight between Ray Knight and Eric Davis in July 1986. Kevin Mitchell was with the Mets back then, but was right in the middle of that fight. Just ten years later, Knight was in his first year as Reds manager, and Jim Bowden brought Davis back on a one-year contract which ended up extending Davisí career a few years. The Reds re-acquired Mitchell at the trade deadline that summer of 96, too.

    Iíve always wondered if there were hard feelings between Knight and Davis over that fight. Did they reconcile? Was it ever an issue between the rookie manager and his veteran? Did it have anything to do with Davis leaving as a FA after 96? If anything was ever written or said about this, Iíve long ago forgotten. I figured someone here might know something?
    "It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." - A. Bartlett Giamatti


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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitchout View Post
    Every now and then I’ll think about this question and wonder if anyone knows anything about it. I’ve tried to get guy like Lance to talk about it but to my knowledge, nobody ever has. It starts with that epic fight between Ray Knight and Eric Davis in July 1986. Kevin Mitchell was with the Mets back then, but was right in the middle of that fight. Just ten years later, Knight was in his first year as Reds manager, and Jim Bowden brought Davis back on a one-year contract which ended up extending Davis’ career a few years. The Reds re-acquired Mitchell at the trade deadline that summer of 96, too.

    I’ve always wondered if there were hard feelings between Knight and Davis over that fight. Did they reconcile? Was it ever an issue between the rookie manager and his veteran? Did it have anything to do with Davis leaving as a FA after 96? If anything was ever written or said about this, I’ve long ago forgotten. I figured someone here might know something?
    The question of how Knight and Davis got along is one I've always wondered.

    As for why Davis left after 1996, well, I think I can safely say it's the same reason Ron Gant left a year earlier and Greg Vaughn left 3 years later. I'll give you a hint. It's a 4 word sentence and the first two words are "The Reds" and the last two words are "are cheap". It's always a double edged sword with our beloved baseball organization. Sign cheap free agent to one year contract.
    Cheap free agent has resurgence. Reds tell world they would love to keep him, Reds make laughingly low offer, now expensive free agent leaves, Reds search for new cheap free agent.

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by foster15 View Post
    The question of how Knight and Davis got along is one I've always wondered.

    As for why Davis left after 1996, well, I think I can safely say it's the same reason Ron Gant left a year earlier and Greg Vaughn left 3 years later. I'll give you a hint. It's a 4 word sentence and the first two words are "The Reds" and the last two words are "are cheap". It's always a double edged sword with our beloved baseball organization. Sign cheap free agent to one year contract.
    Cheap free agent has resurgence. Reds tell world they would love to keep him, Reds make laughingly low offer, now expensive free agent leaves, Reds search for new cheap free agent.
    Totally understand the argument about the Reds not spending to keep guys. I wonít disagree.

    But specific to Davisí case, I wonder if his relationship with Knight (or lack thereof?) made Davis decide he wasnít coming back regardless of the money. Or did the team realize it wasnít a good fit moving forward and didnít make a serious offer because of that?

    It could be these guys can forgive and forget things that happen in the spirit of competition between the lines. But really, this is the only example i can recall in my life as a Reds fan in which two players who had a prior history, were on the same team together. Iím pretty sure (in fact, Iím positive) Knight was already the manager before Davis signed for 96. So in such a situation did they have a meeting of that minds to clear the air and making sure the situation was tenable, prior to his signing?
    "It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitchout View Post
    Totally understand the argument about the Reds not spending to keep guys. I wonít disagree.

    But specific to Davisí case, I wonder if his relationship with Knight (or lack thereof?) made Davis decide he wasnít coming back regardless of the money. Or did the team realize it wasnít a good fit moving forward and didnít make a serious offer because of that?

    It could be these guys can forgive and forget things that happen in the spirit of competition between the lines. But really, this is the only example i can recall in my life as a Reds fan in which two players who had a prior history, were on the same team together. Iím pretty sure (in fact, Iím positive) Knight was already the manager before Davis signed for 96. So in such a situation did they have a meeting of that minds to clear the air and making sure the situation was tenable, prior to his signing?
    It was a stupid fight in heat of a baseball game that took place 10 years earlier. Ray Knight was the instigator and the jerk in it. I'm sure these guys buried the hatchet some time soon after. I think Knight was showboating his macho-ness for his Mets teammates and it didn't matter if it was Davis or someone else beating out the throw to 3rd, he was going to do it for whatever warped reason he had.

    The reason Davis left was he had a great season, was a free agent and the Reds were not going to outbid anyone else for his services. That simple and the reason it's that simple is he wouldn't have signed with them in the first place if he still had an issue with Knight or vice versa and the Reds did what they've done many times, let a free agent walk who outperformed their contract. No big mystery. The only mystery is we don't know when or how they buried the hatchet, but it's obvious that they did.

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitchout View Post
    Every now and then I’ll think about this question and wonder if anyone knows anything about it. I’ve tried to get guy like Lance to talk about it but to my knowledge, nobody ever has. It starts with that epic fight between Ray Knight and Eric Davis in July 1986. Kevin Mitchell was with the Mets back then, but was right in the middle of that fight. Just ten years later, Knight was in his first year as Reds manager, and Jim Bowden brought Davis back on a one-year contract which ended up extending Davis’ career a few years. The Reds re-acquired Mitchell at the trade deadline that summer of 96, too.

    I’ve always wondered if there were hard feelings between Knight and Davis over that fight. Did they reconcile? Was it ever an issue between the rookie manager and his veteran? Did it have anything to do with Davis leaving as a FA after 96? If anything was ever written or said about this, I’ve long ago forgotten. I figured someone here might know something?
    I have Eric's book Born to play. He touches on this very subject. He says in spring training Knight put him in the lineup when they were playing in the biggest OFs in spring training fields. He feels Knight wanted him to fail. He then started Vince Coleman over Eric to start the season. Of course Coleman was gone by May. And ever chance Eric got all he did was hit. At the end of the season they were like 80-81 and Eric said Knight begged him and Larkin to play the last series of the year cause he said it would look good if they could finish .500
    Eric said at seasons end all the white free agents were resigned and all the black ones were let go. Him and Lenny Harris there may have been more. Eric doesn't like Knight and Knight doesn't like Eric. At least that was Eric's take in the book. And he did thing it stemmed back to that very fight. Pretty good read.

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    Chip R (09-16-2021)

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Always hated Knight after that fight. He showed that he was a no class punk. Complete sucker punch by Knight IMO.

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    KeefeCato (09-16-2021),TexasRedsFan (09-16-2021)

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by KeefeCato View Post
    I have Eric's book Born to play. He touches on this very subject. He says in spring training Knight put him in the lineup when they were playing in the biggest OFs in spring training fields. He feels Knight wanted him to fail. He then started Vince Coleman over Eric to start the season. Of course Coleman was gone by May. And ever chance Eric got all he did was hit. At the end of the season they were like 80-81 and Eric said Knight begged him and Larkin to play the last series of the year cause he said it would look good if they could finish .500
    Eric said at seasons end all the white free agents were resigned and all the black ones were let go. Him and Lenny Harris there may have been more. Eric doesn't like Knight and Knight doesn't like Eric. At least that was Eric's take in the book. And he did thing it stemmed back to that very fight. Pretty good read.
    I haven't read Eric's book but I did read something somewhere that there was always bad blood after that fight. They didn't like each other.

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    I still wish Dave Parker had wrecked their whole team in that fight. He was pulling guys out of there two at a time, and when the Mets saw who it was, they weren't too interested in fighting anymore. John Denny re-arranged someone's face in that brawl. Marty and Joe used to say he was the most dangerous dude on the team. Had a bunch of martial arts training, IIRC.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

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    Chip R (09-16-2021),KeefeCato (09-16-2021),smixsell (09-18-2021)

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    I still wish Dave Parker had wrecked their whole team in that fight. He was pulling guys out of there two at a time, and when the Mets saw who it was, they weren't too interested in fighting anymore. John Denny re-arranged someone's face in that brawl. Marty and Joe used to say he was the most dangerous dude on the team. Had a bunch of martial arts training, IIRC.
    Denny was indeed a martial arts guy. He could have rearranged a lot of faces.

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    Chip R (09-16-2021)

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    I still wish Dave Parker had wrecked their whole team in that fight. He was pulling guys out of there two at a time, and when the Mets saw who it was, they weren't too interested in fighting anymore. John Denny re-arranged someone's face in that brawl. Marty and Joe used to say he was the most dangerous dude on the team. Had a bunch of martial arts training, IIRC.
    If with 2 outs in the 9th inning and Reds leading 3-1, Dave Parker hadn't been fooling around on the fly ball to right field that he pretended was going over the fence only to laugh and stick his glove out to catch it and then dropped it, the game would've been over with a Reds win and the fight would've never taken place.
    Last edited by foster15; 09-16-2021 at 01:33 AM.

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    Hoosier Red (09-17-2021)

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by foster15 View Post
    If with 2 outs in the 9th inning and Reds leading 3-1, Dave Parker hadn't been fooling around on the fly ball to right field that he pretended was going over the fence only to laugh and stick his glove out to catch it and then dropped it, the game would've been over with a Reds win and the fight would've never taken place.
    I think about stuff like this all the time ; not just in regards to baseball but in life. Like, if I had gotten my cat fixed before she got pregnant, her kittens wouldn't be climbing my drapes at 2:30 in the morning.

    Also, in baseball, had our old friend , Dale Murray retired U.L. Washington with two outs in the top of the ninth, there would have been no pine tar incident.

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    Hoosier Red (09-17-2021)

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Fried Redleg View Post
    Denny was indeed a martial arts guy. He could have rearranged a lot of faces.
    Black belt in taekwondo, I think.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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    sdwagers (09-16-2021)

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Denny was a guy nobody wanted to mess with. He had that look in his eyes like the lights are on but nobody is home.
    As for Parker he always did that hot dog swipe down at the ball catch. That night it backfired. You can clearly see what Franco thought about it. He wasn't saying nice things about Parker.
    Knight was a gold glove boxer. I despise him and Edmunds. Only x reds I can say that about.
    But knight would have probably decked Parker had Parker charged him.
    Last edited by KeefeCato; 09-16-2021 at 06:02 AM.

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitchout View Post
    Every now and then Iíll think about this question and wonder if anyone knows anything about it. Iíve tried to get guy like Lance to talk about it but to my knowledge, nobody ever has. It starts with that epic fight between Ray Knight and Eric Davis in July 1986. Kevin Mitchell was with the Mets back then, but was right in the middle of that fight. Just ten years later, Knight was in his first year as Reds manager, and Jim Bowden brought Davis back on a one-year contract which ended up extending Davisí career a few years. The Reds re-acquired Mitchell at the trade deadline that summer of 96, too.

    Iíve always wondered if there were hard feelings between Knight and Davis over that fight. Did they reconcile? Was it ever an issue between the rookie manager and his veteran? Did it have anything to do with Davis leaving as a FA after 96? If anything was ever written or said about this, Iíve long ago forgotten. I figured someone here might know something?
    Lance did a blog on it here - videos to youtube included - but no opinion by Lance

    https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/l...es-eric-davis/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Black belt in taekwondo, I think.
    "a karate expert" per the commentators
    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    sdwagers for Reds GM!

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    Re: Eric Davis and Ray Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    sdwagers for Reds GM!

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