Crypto In a Roth - I'm trying it

[Redsfaithful]

Oh yeah, not saying you can’t make money off a scam. Congrats. Definitely a pyramid scheme scam that is simultaneously horrible for the environment, though.

Nah, not a pyramid scheme. The money I've made isn't predicated on recruiting a downline in any way. NFTs are closer to a luxury goods market. Lot of sneakerheads love this stuff and it's not hard to see why when you get into it.

I think crypto in general is pretty dumb. I owned bitcoin back in 2012 and thought it was stupid, sold for a small profit back then. Had zero interest in any of it until utility came. Decentralization is a fantastic concept though, and it's shame that it's libertarians who are the ones into it and creating the world we're going to live in here.

A lot of the commentary on Twitter and so on is really bad. I've seen tweets with 5-6 figure likes where the person is being trolled completely by a crypto person (think person pretending to be upset that someone has right clicked and saved their NFT and everyone actually takes that bait) and nobody realizes it.

The environment thing won't be an issue shortly. There are already zero emission blockchains.

[bucksfan2]

Assuming this was directed at me.... My $11K at start of thread is $13,562 right now. Was closing in on $17 at one point. I am actually 100% fine with it staying below $14K until Jan, because I made the first $7K my 2021 Roth contribution, and plan to make another $7k right after new year for 2022. So staying at $14 is advantageous to me in short term.

Declines as buying opportunity. Very possible. but not for me. This $14K will be the extent of my Crypto adventure. It's just a little side bet.

More of a curiosity, you were posting quite a bit when it was surging, didn't know where you stood recently.

To me, I think there is "value" at times, but that comes when there is a big sell off. It sounds like you are buy and hold on it. The way I look at it its more about "play money" trying to time it, or buying after wild swings.

I am not a big believer in the decentralized concept, I think the blockchain technology is what will become more mainstream with this type of currency.

While its been around for a while now, it really hasn't really become a form of currency. It is more of an investment than a method of payment. And I think with the way the US Government is handling things, using it as a form of payment can become messy. Every transaction will have a gain or loss associated with it. Lets say you buy a Tesla with bitcoin (as Musk once wanted) not only are you buying the car, but you are paying capital gains on your coin. It can become a headache come tax time.

I think NFT's are stupid. It makes no sense to me, I own a digital image that anyone can use any one can copy the image and paste image you want anywhere.

FWIW, we are basically operating in a digital currency market anyway. How much paper money is actually traded in today's society. I am paid via direct deposit, I charge most of my purchases, I then ACH payments to my credit card company. I handle very little cash today. The dollar is becoming a digital currency more and more, and its backed by the US Government (for better or worse).

If, and its a big if, China ever permits crypto to be used, you could see a massive spike. But it doesn't appear that is likely any time soon.

[Redsfaithful]

I think NFT's are stupid. It makes no sense to me, I own a digital image that anyone can use any one can copy the image and paste image you want anywhere.

For stuff like Bored Ape the real world equivalent is a frat/sorority or country club membership.

For some of the low rent stuff, it's beanie-baby frenzy/ponzi-ish. For some of the other stuff it's a collectible, like Topps/Panini. For others there's utility attached somehow. Candy had NFTs recently that came with real world experiences like stadium tours and throwing out a first pitch.

For art, I genuinely haven't understood the argument here - you can buy a print of the Mona Lisa or readily find high quality versions online. That doesn't make the Mona Lisa any less priceless. I realize it's difficult to wrap a brain around, but ownership has always been the thing.

[bucksfan2]

For stuff like Bored Ape the real world equivalent is a frat/sorority or country club membership.

For some of the low rent stuff, it's beanie-baby frenzy/ponzi-ish. For some of the other stuff it's a collectible, like Topps/Panini. For others there's utility attached somehow. Candy had NFTs recently that came with real world experiences like stadium tours and throwing out a first pitch.

For art, I genuinely haven't understood the argument here - you can buy a print of the Mona Lisa or readily find high quality versions online. That doesn't make the Mona Lisa any less priceless. I realize it's difficult to wrap a brain around, but ownership has always been the thing.

I don't quite get the Bored Ape Yacht Club thing. I mean I guess you could pay someone to design a digital avatar for you, but when you can right click and paste any image you find, what is that image really worth. Sure I could "own" a unique image, but there is nothing physical, I can't make money off it, I can't do anything other than say "I own" Bored Ape XYZ. When I first heard of NFT's I thought maybe you could license the image. You know like I bought this digital image, you can pay me and reproduce it.

The second part, the low rent stuff, if I own a card, I own an actual physical card. I can display that card, I can touch that card, I can sell that card. That card can't be duplicated, you can't take a picture of the card, it has a physical utility behind it.

If you own a painting, you own a physical piece of art. You can hang it on your wall, hang it in a museum, you can store it in Switzerland so you don't pay taxes on it. If you buy a digital image, there is nothing unique about it. There isn't really only one, because once its out there, people can replicate it. You can't "hang" it on a wall or in a museum. Its like, hey I paid millions of dollars for this digital image in which it says I am the owner, but that is it.

[Redsfaithful]

I don't quite get the Bored Ape Yacht Club thing. I mean I guess you could pay someone to design a digital avatar for you, but when you can right click and paste any image you find, what is that image really worth. Sure I could "own" a unique image, but there is nothing physical, I can't make money off it, I can't do anything other than say "I own" Bored Ape XYZ. When I first heard of NFT's I thought maybe you could license the image. You know like I bought this digital image, you can pay me and reproduce it.

The second part, the low rent stuff, if I own a card, I own an actual physical card. I can display that card, I can touch that card, I can sell that card. That card can't be duplicated, you can't take a picture of the card, it has a physical utility behind it.

If you own a painting, you own a physical piece of art. You can hang it on your wall, hang it in a museum, you can store it in Switzerland so you don't pay taxes on it. If you buy a digital image, there is nothing unique about it. There isn't really only one, because once its out there, people can replicate it. You can't "hang" it on a wall or in a museum. Its like, hey I paid millions of dollars for this digital image in which it says I am the owner, but that is it.

I don't really have any desire to be RedsZone's NFT guy, and don't want to monopolize Jax's thread so I'll just go through real quick - and I don't expect to sell anyone, which is ok! There was a time I couldn't have been sold either.

1. Bored Apes can license their images. But again, it's more akin to a country club than anything else. I don't think that's a difficult analogy to conceptualize in a world where country club memberships can run mid-six figures.

2. You can sell an NFT card of course. I prefer NFT collecting to physical. I didn't touch sports collecting since I was a kid, but I've had a lot of fun this year with Top Shot, Topps, Panini, and now Candy NFTs. I find it a much cleaner experience, I don't need dedicated storage space in my home, I don't have to worry about condition or grading or insurance, and it's all accessible via my phone anytime. The only selling point, for me, with physical now is the nostalgia.

3. If I own a piece of NFT art it's very hangable on my wall (digital art displays are cheap) and the unique thing about it is the connection to the blockchain. Yes, people can replicate, just as they can with physical art. Good luck to them when they try to sell - meanwhile physical art is rife with counterfeiting. You literally cannot counterfeit with NFT art.

Most art and luxury goods of a certain level will be connected somehow to the blockchain in the next few years simply because it does end counterfeiting. You won't be able to buy a Louis Vuitton bag that doesn't come with an NFT proving it's real and that you own it.

[Slyder]

lol I've made so much money this year, glad I didn't think this way back in February

Just don't get caught holding the tulip bulbs when it crashes.

[Redsfaithful]

Just don't get caught holding the tulip bulbs when it crashes.

yeah no doubt

[bucksfan2]

Darren Rovell tracks this quite obnoxiously on twitter. The cryptopunk NFT's have plummeted in price lately, in the matter of weeks. Apparently NBA TopShot has also seen its value drop. That is one I really couldn't understand, you own a highlight, but that highlight is plastered all over youtube?

Like anything, if you were an early adaptor of this, you probably made quite a big of money. Like the guy who paid for a pizza with 11 bitcoin in their infancy.

The one thing that I can see of value with a NFT is if you can trademark it and sell the image. I do see value in that to a certain extent. As for the Bored Ape Yacht Club, the difference in a Country Club and that BAYC is a Country Club has something tangible you can use. It has physical facilities you can use. The BAYC says you can access their members only graffiti board. But then again, I have heard real estate investors have been buying digital real estate in metaverses. I can't fathom.......

Most of this new digital stuff I just don't comprehend. I think the technology is fantastic, and I think stuff like VR can have great effects on society, and maybe I am old, but put the device down and go experience the world.

FWIW I do think over the next decades, most "unique" things of value will be on a blockchain. Here is the question, will there be a blockchain monitoring group?

[Redsfaithful]

The cryptopunk NFT's have plummeted in price lately, in the matter of weeks.

Lot of inside baseball stuff happening there, but one sold for like $10 million yesterday.

[JaxRed]

Well, I got my wish and then some. My Crypto stayed below $14,000 at turn of new year. In fact it's $11,275. I've started the process of moving this years $7,000 Roth contribution over to Alto. Now that I have experience, I know it'll take about 10 dats before I'm invested.

[JaxRed]

I moved my money over. It did not take 10 days. They did not make me wait 7 days before investing this time. I wish they had. I got a better price on my Ethereum when I bought it at Alto then when I sold it to move the money.

But that was short lived because it kept sinking.

In all, the Crypto that was once $17K is now about $8,600. When I made the contribution for this year, I included about $1,500 in new money so I'm at $9,600 now. Going to buy with that $1,500 now.

I'm glad this is just "mad" money....

[NachoMan]

This video has been making the rounds, I wonder what people here think about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_x...l=FoldingIdeas

It's two hours long but well worth watching IMO. Even if you disagree with his conclusions, I think you'll find the critiques pretty compelling.

[Redsfaithful]

He's a smart guy with a lot of good points. Where people struggle is not understanding that a lot of the points made will be dealt with and this stuff isn't going anywhere, no matter how mad about it all people get on Twitter.

I'm personally pretty neutral on whether it's all good or bad (particularly because none of it is close to any kind of final form, whether we're talking about crypto or NFTs), but bottom line I've just stopped putting my personal beliefs and politics into the equation when it comes to making money.

[Kingspoint]

Good riddance.

[Kingspoint]

Gambling on crypto was, and you can say was as it's over, thank God,...betting on the Kentucky Derby when you don't know what a horse is. I emptied my Coinbase (in Bitcoin) account two weeks ago after I used it to empty another account that only used crypto. I never kept more than $500 at a time in my crypto account for what is now, obvious reasons.