GM Nick Krall: The 2022 budget is the 1st priority for the Cincinnati Reds off-season

[757690]

The other comment I was going to make was this is Castellini speaking through Krall.

Last year, Daugherty did an interview with Bob and the first thing he said was we set the budget so we break even. If we have money, we’ll spend it. If we need money, we’ll cut. And they cut.

I won’t be at all surprised if they cite attendance was down (like it was for everyone) and cry poor again. Good players will continue to leak away, any signings will be bargain basement, and another window will close. I really hope I’m overly pessimistic but the track record points in that direction.

Attendance was up this year from last year, because they played a full season, and they actually had fans in the stands. There is no way that Reds can sell the notion that they took in the same amount of money in 2021 as in 2020, they clearly took in more, significantly more.

So if the Reds don’t raise their payroll, we know that they don’t really base it on revenues. They base it on what they are willing to spend.

[DocRed]

The other comment I was going to make was this is Castellini speaking through Krall.

Last year, Daugherty did an interview with Bob and the first thing he said was we set the budget so we break even. If we have money, we’ll spend it. If we need money, we’ll cut. And they cut.

I won’t be at all surprised if they cite attendance was down (like it was for everyone) and cry poor again. Good players will continue to leak away, any signings will be bargain basement, and another window will close. I really hope I’m overly pessimistic but the track record points in that direction.

Not defending Bob at all but I do think you have to keep in mind that he is still technically a "minority" owner who owns just 15% (last I checked) of the Reds even though he is the managing partner. So in many ways he has to keep the other partners happy as well as himself.

[Chip R]

Does anyone really believe this team will take steps to improve their chances of making the post season? If so, please check yourself into drug rehab.

If there are expanded playoffs, they really don't have to do much.

That said, Nick Krall is making me long for the halcyon days of John Allen.

[westofyou]

Not defending Bob at all but I do think you have to keep in mind that he is still technically a "minority" owner who owns just 15% (last I checked) of the Reds even though he is the managing partner. So in many ways he has to keep the other partners happy as well as himself.

He owns the "Voting share" that's the power in this ownership structure, same thing that Marge owned when she didn't own the majority of the club. That said the group as a whole vote with their profit margins in mind first and foremost

[Kinsm]

Not defending Bob at all but I do think you have to keep in mind that he is still technically a "minority" owner who owns just 15% (last I checked) of the Reds even though he is the managing partner. So in many ways he has to keep the other partners happy as well as himself.

Nearly all of the minority owners have non voting shares, think of the majority of them as silent investors.

[foster15]

If there are expanded playoffs, they really don't have to do much.

That said, Nick Krall is making me long for the halcyon days of John Allen.

Yeah, well, maybe I'm asking too much but I believe a team should strive to improve their results based in improving their team rather than wait for the teams within their division to regress or waiting for the invite list to the playoffs to be expanded. I just think that gives you a slight better chance (like 90 percent slight lol) to winning a WS championship.

[westofyou]

Nearly all of the minority owners have non voting shares, think of the majority of them as silent investors.

Correct that is why Marge got sued by them, as they had no power to weigh in on any of her decisions.

[757690]

Nearly all of the minority owners have non voting shares, think of the majority of them as silent investors.

Not to start this debate again, but I believe that the Williams Brothers have voting shares.

[Kinsm]

Not to start this debate again, but I believe that the Williams Brothers have voting shares.

yes they do.

[Roy Tucker]

From the Reds 2021 media guide under Investors. First three are a separate line in bigger font.

Investors

Robert H. Castellini
W. Joseph Williams Jr.
Thomas L. Williams

Lindner Reds Baseball IV LLC
Frank Cohen
William J. Reik
Buy Buy Baseball, LLC
EMK Investment Company, LLC
Larry Sheakley
Jeffrey L. Wyler
Harry J. Fath
Jeffrey L. Gendell
Edwin J. Rigaud, AACE, LLC
HKR Baseball, LLC
Ronald L. Sargent
John H. Wyant
George H. Vincent, Queen City Diamond, LLC
Heading for Home, LLC
Art Hauser

An older article with detail on who these people/groups are. A little dated but some info.
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna.../tidbits1.html

[M2]

Talking about the process is a tried and true method of not answering the question.

"What are your plans for the offseason?"
"Let me tell you about how we will formulate those plans without ever touching upon an actual plan."

I don't know if the Reds have a formal plan, and there's legitimate reasons for them not wanting to give details, but they should have been ready for this question with something other than an unsatisfying describe-the-process answer. What fans want to hear on the heels of two seasons where the team has shown promise is that the plan is be among the best teams in the league next season and be in the playoffs. The organization has done well enough to create expectation and the internal resolve should be that they aim to deliver on it.

Now, I'm not so naïve as to think what they should do and what they will do are one and the same. But if they're committed to improving the team, then they ought to say it out loud. Krall can push off any detail questions if he can fall back on them wanting to come into next spring with an improved team capable of making the playoffs. Makes everything so much simpler. Organizations often don't make those kinds of verbal commitments because they're worried about backlash if the plan doesn't work, but fans are pretty forgiving if your actions back your verbiage.

Given the Reds' position, a little bit of bravado would serve them well. Seems like the thing local fans are starving for is a team that believes in itself enough for them to believe in it.

[DocRed]

Attendance was up this year from last year, because they played a full season, and they actually had fans in the stands. There is no way that Reds can sell the notion that they took in the same amount of money in 2021 as in 2020, they clearly took in more, significantly more.

So if the Reds don’t raise their payroll, we know that they don’t really base it on revenues. They base it on what they are willing to spend.

It was still way down from 2019. Salaries were prorated in 2020 as well.

[westofyou]

From the Reds 2021 media guide under Investors. First three are a separate line in bigger font.

Investors

Robert H. Castellini
W. Joseph Williams Jr.
Thomas L. Williams

Lindner Reds Baseball IV LLC
Frank Cohen
William J. Reik
Buy Buy Baseball, LLC
EMK Investment Company, LLC
Larry Sheakley
Jeffrey L. Wyler
Harry J. Fath
Jeffrey L. Gendell
Edwin J. Rigaud, AACE, LLC
HKR Baseball, LLC
Ronald L. Sargent
John H. Wyant
George H. Vincent, Queen City Diamond, LLC
Heading for Home, LLC
Art Hauser

An older article with detail on who these people/groups are. A little dated but some info.
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna.../tidbits1.html

What a crapfest of owners, nothing gets done in that quagmire.

92 years ago this was going on when a local Auto Dealership maverick decided he was going to buy the Reds and learned that he could get a controlling share too.

Sidney Weil was fast at work looking for ways to purchase as many of 6300 shares that were spread about town as they could. Soon shares of the team previously estimated at the $50 cost per share suddenly were reported to be being bought up by Weil for $210. In the end, Weil had spent $650,000 on 3200 shares which made him the largest shareholder, thus within ten days Weil had bought out directors, Walter Frielander, James Orr and Maurice Pollack and on September 25th of 1929 it was reported that Weil would soon succeed C.J. McDiarmid as the president of the team, replacing every member on the board except Lewis Widreg who owned the largest amount of stock outside of Weil and had even bought 700 extra shares during Weil’s buying spree to assure he still had power in the decision making of the franchise, eventually Weil and Widrig came to an agreement and as the Reds prepared to play their season finale 38 year old Sidney Weil took control of the club and Redland Field.

His first public statement was an assurance to the fans that he had their best interests at the forefront of his mind, “I believe this is the best baseball city of its size in the country, and I am sure that the fans will appreciate my sincere efforts to give them a winner."

[Chip R]

Yeah, well, maybe I'm asking too much but I believe a team should strive to improve their results based in improving their team rather than wait for the teams within their division to regress or waiting for the invite list to the playoffs to be expanded. I just think that gives you a slight better chance (like 90 percent slight lol) to winning a WS championship.

I agree but I'm just saying.

[757690]

It was still way down from 2019. Salaries were prorated in 2020 as well.

So somewhere between 2010’s payroll and 2021’s, if they are going on revenue. I don’t think that will happen, but it should, if the Reds are being honest.