Plus the thin cracker crust.Originally Posted by westofyou
Plus the thin cracker crust.
The Cardinals have not demonstrated patience with managers who get mediocre results. Absent the 17 game streak, he has two years running of mediocre results.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
I think the consensus that is coming together on this is that Shildt insisted on a different approach to the game than that of the front office. The brass met with the coaching staff last Friday as an end of year pow-wow. Before that meeting there had been signals from the organization that the team was discussing an extension for Shildt. Apparently something was said, or not said, in that meeting that changed the attitude of the FO. In dismissing him the organization made it clear that it had nothing to do with the past year. They stressed it was about where the team was going.
There seems to have been a rub between the hitting instructor, Jeff Albert, and Shildt. Shildt had publicly commented back in June that (and I’m paraphrasing here) baseball had moved too far in the wrong direction in the past several years and he wanted to bring it back to some semblance of what it should be. Bottom line: he probably wasn’t an analytics apostle. My impression that his hitting philosophy also didn’t parallel Jeff Albert’s and that was an issue to a point. I think it is telling when a manager is fired and the organization, in the same breath, says they expect the entire coaching staff to return. Clearly this was about Mike Shildt and nothing else.
The Cardinals requested special permission to be able to announce this firing on a MLB playoff game day which seems a bit unorthodox as well. Quite the unexpected news yesterday.
*BaseClogger* (10-18-2021),757690 (10-15-2021),Chip R (10-15-2021),cumberlandreds (10-15-2021),Ron Madden (10-15-2021),Tom Servo (10-15-2021),westofyou (10-15-2021)
Excellent post. I was beginning to think it was an argument over whether a hotdog is a sandwich.
Chip R (10-15-2021),M2 (10-18-2021),Ron Madden (10-15-2021),westofyou (10-15-2021)
His background is rich in HS Ball and College ball, which is a different game than MLB. He likely clashed in small ways with enough folks that once it became apparent that he wasn't going to change they decided to make that decision for him. Since he really has no rich pro experience they probably didn't feel as much heat from the long timers in the organization about just moving on.
Ron Madden (10-15-2021)
It appears that he wasn't a fan of the rip and grip approach Albert was selling and attempted to override this approach beginning near the second half of the season. He also made statements publicly and likely privately about the need for additional players when most of the team was on the DL - and Mozeliak wasn't a fan of the manager saying what his needs on the field were.
The good news is that he's gone from St. Louis because I think he was a better manager than the Cardinal FO did, which helps the Reds.
https://www.mlb.com/news/mike-shildt...d-by-cardinalsMozeliak outlined a simmering disconnect between Shildt and the front office -- one that was building over time but “came to a head” over the past week. The staff last met on Friday, but Mozeliak declined to outline the nature of such discussions or of the differences. Instead, the club feels this move was necessary in order to keep the big league team up for contention in 2022 and beyond, coming off their third consecutive postseason appearance under Shildt despite the roller-coaster that this season proved to be.
“Where we are in this point in time, we're not making this decision on a reaction of the season,” Mozeliak said. “This is a decision that as we start to look forward, what do we want it to most look like, and how do we want that to be run? … The decision that both [chairman Bill DeWitt Jr.] and myself and some others came to was -- what we want to do and where we want to go, we needed to go in a different way.”
Now the Cardinals are eyeing a replacement. Mozeliak said that the club has a few internal options in mind that can take over, and after letting the dust settle, he does not foresee the search extending past mid-November. Bench coach Oliver Marmol and first-base coach Stubby Clapp have ascended up the Cardinals’ coaching tree in recent years; the latter has interviewed for managerial jobs in the past.
pretty amazing to fire a guy who just led his team on a 17-game winning streak to blow past the reds and make the playoffs.
thanks, cardinals?
I wouldn't Saint him yet, if anything it's a Forrest Gump moment, team went on a historic run that only eight teams have eclipsted and he was the manager, it's not like he was drawing plays in the dirt and charming the press like Whitey Herzog. If anything from where I sit Shildt was a lot like a guy who fell into something that he never expected and the organization still thought that and he didn't.
Chip R (10-15-2021)
The wildcard game isn't the playoffs. Go look up the definition. The winner of the wildcard gets into the playoffs.
Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.
757690 (10-15-2021),Old school 1983 (10-15-2021),Roy Tucker (10-15-2021)
MLB considers it part of the Postseason: Playoffs
https://www.mlb.com/postseason
Big Klu (10-15-2021),cumberlandreds (10-15-2021),Larkin Fan (10-19-2021),M2 (10-18-2021),Rojo Rijo (10-15-2021),Ron Madden (10-15-2021),westofyou (10-15-2021)
You could make the case that the Cardinals have underachieved over the last few years. A lot of people thought they would win the division this year. While the 17 game winning streak was impressive, they had to do that to get into the playoffs over the fading Padres and Reds. It wasn't like they did that to catch the Dodgers or the Giants. They did that to win the 2nd wild card. Kind of like saying in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. But, to their credit, they did that and hung with the Dodgers in that wild card game. You might say they gave them a better game than the Giants did. And when they need a piece, they go out and trade for it. That tells you they have a good minor league system and can dip into that when they need to trade for an Arrenado or a Goldschmidt. And people made fun of them acquiring Lester and Happ at the deadline but they were solid contributors.
But I wonder why Shlidt was hired in the first place if they were going to go all analytic. I don't think anyone thought he was a big analytics guy from the start.
muddie (10-15-2021)
Yeah I dont care what you call it, it's what you play 162 games to accomplish
My friends in St. Louis are perplexed, but not upset by it.
Overall, they are unhappy with the product the Cardinals have put on the field in the last few years, so they are open to any and all change. They never saw Shidlt as a problem or as a solution. They hope this means a bigger overhaul organization wide this off season.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
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